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Old 08-19-2005, 01:09 PM   #1 (Print)
Nick1m
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Smile Update on Mpeg4 switch

I just spoke with d* today since I was in the market to purchase a HDtivo. I asked him what will happen when the new satellites come online and use the MPEG4 format instead of the MPEG2. I was told that when this occurs D* will REPLACE my hdtivo with a MPEG4 compatible dvr free of charge. I know it won't be a TIVO but at least I won't have to shell out more $$$ to stay current.

Just wanted to let you know my experience
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Old 08-19-2005, 01:21 PM   #2 (Print)
kturcotte
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Is this swap going to be required? There's NO WAY they're getting ANY of my receivers unless they replace them with ones with Tivo software!!!
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Old 08-19-2005, 01:27 PM   #3 (Print)
ebonovic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kturcotte
Is this swap going to be required? There's NO WAY they're getting ANY of my receivers unless they replace them with ones with Tivo software!!!


Then you probable are not going to every switch...

The Swap will be required if you want to tap into any of the new MPEG-4 offerings. Which probably in 3-4 years or so, will be ALL HD programming offered by DirecTV.

Your HR10-250 will still work fine for OTA and SD after that point.

Note: the 3-4 year is a guess based on information posted in the past.

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Old 08-19-2005, 01:30 PM   #4 (Print)
Looper
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My guess is you won't be forced to swap (at least at first), but you obviously will need new equipment to get the new channels...

I had the same concerns, but ended up going for the new HR10-250 deal, and locking me in for two years. I mentioned these concerns to the CSR who helped me .. and got an answer something like this:

"Our DVR will be *better* than TiVo, we don't have to get clearance from TiVo to add new features!"

hehehehe .... yeah right, somehow I doubt that. Hasn't it been the other way around???

If the Comcast DVR I had for a while is any indication of what a non-TiVo DVR is like, I'll keep my TiVo thank you very much.
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Old 08-19-2005, 01:40 PM   #5 (Print)
n8dagr8
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To add more fuel to the fire....the CSR I talked to said they would swap them out if they didn't get a software upgrade for the HR10-250 to handle MPEG-4.

HUH?

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Old 08-19-2005, 01:40 PM   #6 (Print)
kturcotte
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Looper
My guess is you won't be forced to swap (at least at first), but you obviously will need new equipment to get the new channels...

I had the same concerns, but ended up going for the new HR10-250 deal, and locking me in for two years. I mentioned these concerns to the CSR who helped me .. and got an answer something like this:

"Our DVR will be *better* than TiVo, we don't have to get clearance from TiVo to add new features!"

hehehehe .... yeah right, somehow I doubt that. Hasn't it been the other way around???

If the Comcast DVR I had for a while is any indication of what a non-TiVo DVR is like, I'll keep my TiVo thank you very much.


New features? Like no 30 second skip? Probably no wish lists? God awful Directv guide (I'm not talking about the speed-I MUCH prefer Tivo's guide over Directv's)? Possibly no way to upgrade hard drive size (Haven't heard anything on that, but...)?
ONLY way they'll EVERY get me to switch to an MPEG-4 HD DVR is to put Tivo software in it!!!! And they better watch themselves if they force a switchout-I'm loyal to Tivo, not Directv, and I'll take my $150 a month account someplace else.
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Old 08-19-2005, 01:47 PM   #7 (Print)
Looper
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After calling several times in the last few days to get me a good deal on the HR10-250, I'm come to the conclusion that the CSRs have no f---ing clue about how anything really works, so I basically wouldn't take anything I hear from them too seriously.....
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Old 08-19-2005, 02:34 PM   #8 (Print)
BobbyG123
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I have a question. Most of you (us) are pretty active with Hi-Fi/home theater technology. Why then are so many of you "afraid" to lose your Tivo software? I know Tivo is great. I love my new box. With that said, I'll master the new DVR in a matter of days, so why worry about it?

I'm not trying to sound confrontational, but as long as the new DVR's allow me to pause live TV, have 2 tuner capability, and let me record one program while I watch another, does anything else really matter?
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Old 08-19-2005, 02:39 PM   #9 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick1m
I just spoke with d* today since I was in the market to purchase a HDtivo. I asked him what will happen when the new satellites come online and use the MPEG4 format instead of the MPEG2. I was told that when this occurs D* will REPLACE my hdtivo with a MPEG4 compatible dvr free of charge. I know it won't be a TIVO but at least I won't have to shell out more $$$ to stay current.

Just wanted to let you know my experience


Any word when this is going to start though? I am in the top 12 market area is Chicago so I should have my locals by the end of the year. I just want HD but the start of Nextel Cup next season.
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Old 08-19-2005, 02:41 PM   #10 (Print)
kturcotte
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyG123
I have a question. Most of you (us) are pretty active with Hi-Fi/home theater technology. Why then are so many of you "afraid" to lose your Tivo software? I know Tivo is great. I love my new box. With that said, I'll master the new DVR in a matter of days, so why worry about it?

I'm not trying to sound confrontational, but as long as the new DVR's allow me to pause live TV, have 2 tuner capability, and let me record one program while I watch another, does anything else really matter?


I'm afraid of the new DVR as far as "mastering" it, I'm fairly sure I could it. What I'm afraid of is losing mailny is my Wishlists-I couldn't live without them!! They're more important to me than HD. The 30 second skip I could deal without if necessary.
I'm not COMPLETELY against the new DVR though. I'll wait and read some reviews from others. I come from Dish Network DVRs. Anybody who ever had the original Dish Player knows what I'm talking about, and I also had a 501, which I wasn't too impressed with either. The main reason I like my Tivo is that 99% of the time, I don't have to babysit it, make sure it's going to record what it's supposed it, and doesn't just delete programs because it feels like it. I guess wishlists would be number 2 on my "Must have" list, right behind stability and confidence.
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Old 08-19-2005, 02:42 PM   #11 (Print)
BarneyTC
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I wish D* would "outsource" their CSR operation to India. At least then the people answering the phone would have some technical knowledge. The current crew are just a bunch of minimally trained, minimum wage morons, sitting in front of terminals, reading back "FAQ" answers to whoever calls in.
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Old 08-19-2005, 02:44 PM   #12 (Print)
inaka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyG123
I have a question. Most of you (us) are pretty active with Hi-Fi/home theater technology. Why then are so many of you "afraid" to lose your Tivo software? I know Tivo is great. I love my new box. With that said, I'll master the new DVR in a matter of days, so why worry about it?

I'm not trying to sound confrontational, but as long as the new DVR's allow me to pause live TV, have 2 tuner capability, and let me record one program while I watch another, does anything else really matter?

Because you can only "master" what features they have in place. If they don't have wishlists, you can't master them. If they don't have the ease of a season pass that skips reruns, you can't master it. If they don't have the ability to add a hard drive, you can't do it, etc...
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Old 08-19-2005, 02:49 PM   #13 (Print)
Looper
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That was pretty much my mindset - and I was ready to jump ship to Comcast for my new HD set, and wait until they sort out the MPEG-4 channels and see what my options are at that point before I decided. So I actually got one of the Comcast dual-tuner HD DVRs - I've had it for about a week now. The biggest thing that concerned me was the storage size. 120GB for an HD DVR really is an annoyance when you come from a 120+GB SD DVR - basically you're in a mode where you have to be careful to clean off shows within a day or so, otherwise the shows you care about will fall off. My wife wasn't too excited about that.

Other than that, I think most of the issues are look/feel kind of things. In general I think the Comcast DVR isn't as refined as the TiVo user interface, but that would be something I could live with (and get used to as you mention). There were a few little annoyances (like the fact that it won't let you "power off" while it's recording, and it pops up a message whenever it finishes a recording - why would I want to know that?).

And there were a few things I liked about it. When you go into a menu, the active program is shown (with audio) in a small window - nice. The guide was MUCH snappier/more responsive than my TiVo.

I think given a few more years to work out the kinks, they will work out a lot of these annoyances (I've heard from people at work that the new Comcast DVRs are much improved from the old ones), and then there will be less and less reason to stay with TiVo. For instance, I've heard that some cable companies allow you to hook up an external Firewire drive to your DVR (mine had the port, but no S/W) - if that were an option, I probably wouldn't have bought the HR10-250 that's coming tomorrow....
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Old 08-19-2005, 03:11 PM   #14 (Print)
Runch Machine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyG123
I have a question. Most of you (us) are pretty active with Hi-Fi/home theater technology. Why then are so many of you "afraid" to lose your Tivo software? I know Tivo is great. I love my new box. With that said, I'll master the new DVR in a matter of days, so why worry about it?

I'm not trying to sound confrontational, but as long as the new DVR's allow me to pause live TV, have 2 tuner capability, and let me record one program while I watch another, does anything else really matter?


For most thinking people, it will come down to functionality. If the new DVR does everything that Tivo does now, and more, most will probably make the switch. If the new DVR has a minimul set of functions like cable TV offers, then people won't switch. I tried the Time Warner HD-DVR after having low def Tivo for a couple of years and hated the TW DVR because of how limited it was. It only had a 120 gig drive and the user interface was terrible. You'd have thought that no one at Scientific Atlanta had ever seen a Tivo DVR. The SA was terrible. However, if I'd never had Tivo, I wouldn't have known that. The SA DVR has dual tuner and all the basics needed to work.

Directv is not run by complete itiots. The functions in their new DVR will have to at least match what Tivo has now.

I did read that Directv's new DVR will NOT have 30 second skip. For me, that's a deal killer, 30 second skip is one of my favorite functions.

When I told a friend of mine about the coming change and that Directv was not going to sell HD-Tivo at some point in the future he said that he'd never switch to an HD DVR if it didn't have 30 second skip. He doesn't have an HDTV yet. He went on to say he'd rather watch a show in black and white if that was the only way to have a DVR with 30 second skip.

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Old 08-19-2005, 03:27 PM   #15 (Print)
kturcotte
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runch Machine
For most thinking people, it will come down to functionality. If the new DVR does everything that Tivo does now, and more, most will probably make the switch. If the new DVR has a minimul set of functions like cable TV offers, then people won't switch. I tried the Time Warner HD-DVR after having low def Tivo for a couple of years and hated the TW DVR because of how limited it was. It only had a 120 gig drive and the user interface was terrible. You'd have thought that no one at Scientific Atlanta had ever seen a Tivo DVR. The SA was terrible. However, if I'd never had Tivo, I wouldn't have known that. The SA DVR has dual tuner and all the basics needed to work.

Directv is not run by complete itiots. The functions in their new DVR will have to at least match what Tivo has now.

I did read that Directv's new DVR will NOT have 30 second skip. For me, that's a deal killer, 30 second skip is one of my favorite functions.

When I told a friend of mine about the coming change and that Directv was not going to sell HD-Tivo at some point in the future he said that he'd never switch to an HD DVR if it didn't have 30 second skip. He doesn't have an HDTV yet. He went on to say he'd rather watch a show in black and white if that was the only way to have a DVR with 30 second skip.



Exactly. If the new DVR has wishlists, I can set up seaon passes as I do now, allows hard drive upgrades (For an HD DVR, I'd like to be able to keep about 120 hours of HD content on the hard drive) and is as stable and secure as the Directivos, I might consider switching to them.
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Old 08-19-2005, 03:29 PM   #16 (Print)
hancox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarneyTC
I wish D* would "outsource" their CSR operation to India. At least then the people answering the phone would have some technical knowledge. The current crew are just a bunch of minimally trained, minimum wage morons, sitting in front of terminals, reading back "FAQ" answers to whoever calls in.



You're kidding, right? Name me one outsourced outfit that DOESN'T DO what you speak of above. At least people here *could* be closer to the operation if D* wanted it that way. They obviously don't, but it could happen. 100% imopssible from offshore!
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Old 08-19-2005, 03:32 PM   #17 (Print)
kturcotte
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You know what would fix ALL of this? Tivo should just release just the software and allow it to work on a computer. Get some SA HD receivers from Directv (Or Dish, or even cable), and run them into a tuner card via coax, composite, S-Video (For SD customers), component, DVI, or HDMI. Just have a tuner card with all those inputs, and allow as many tuner cards as your motherboard allows. I'd GLADLY pay Tivo their $13 a month to be able to do this!!!!
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Old 08-19-2005, 03:44 PM   #18 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kturcotte
Is this swap going to be required? There's NO WAY they're getting ANY of my receivers unless they replace them with ones with Tivo software!!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by kturcotte
ONLY way they'll EVERY get me to switch to an MPEG-4 HD DVR is to put Tivo software in it!!!!


Some of you people really crack me up. I love the way people keep bashing and refusing to use a product that hasn't even been seen yet.
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Old 08-19-2005, 03:55 PM   #19 (Print)
kturcotte
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Originally Posted by Mark Lopez
Some of you people really crack me up. I love the way people keep bashing and refusing to use a product that hasn't even been seen yet.


I also said I wasn't reserving final judgement until a final product is out and reviewed. Even with the manual online, things can still be changed before final release. I am going by what's known now, but I'll be very interested in reading others reviews and opinions of it. Doubfull that I'll like it or want it, but there is still that possibility. If they can take care of all my needs/wants, either at release or in the future with a software update, I'd definitely consder switching. I'd order just one though, and use it in conjunction with my DirecTivos, and get a feel for which I like more.
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Old 08-19-2005, 04:30 PM   #20 (Print)
hokey_days
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Originally Posted by Looper
After calling several times in the last few days to get me a good deal on the HR10-250, I'm come to the conclusion that the CSRs have no f---ing clue about how anything really works, so I basically wouldn't take anything I hear from them too seriously.....


I second that. These are the same CSRs that claim the HDMI defect on the HD TIVO will be FIXED with a yet to be released software update (my CSR said the update is being developed but he could not tell me the release date.)

I'll believe when I SEE IT!
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Old 08-19-2005, 05:23 PM   #21 (Print)
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Originally Posted by Runch Machine
When I told a friend of mine about the coming change and that Directv was not going to sell HD-Tivo at some point in the future he said that he'd never switch to an HD DVR if it didn't have 30 second skip. He doesn't have an HDTV yet. He went on to say he'd rather watch a show in black and white if that was the only way to have a DVR with 30 second skip.


Um..O....K...

I'm sure there will still be a little button labled FF. Are we so afraid we might actually see a commercial image for a split second that we can't live without the 30 second skip? I had 30 second skip on my UTV box -- loved it -- but I have devleoped my FF technique to the point that I get where I want just as quickly. And once in a while I even see something that makes me pause and go back.
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Old 08-19-2005, 05:24 PM   #22 (Print)
JTAnderson
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You must remember, anything a DIRECTV CSR tells you about what will happen in the future is being made up as the words come out. They know absolutely nothing about the future that you cannot find by reading the press releases on DIRECTV's web site. (And they probably don't even know all of that.)
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Old 08-19-2005, 06:14 PM   #23 (Print)
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Are we generally bashing front-line DirecTV CSRs or the Customer Retention folks based in Idaho?
I have had some less-than-topflight experiences with the regular CSRs, but never less than a first-rate experience with the Retention people.
If they don't know an answer, they say so -- and try to find out.
Just today one reminded me to cut off my locals if I want to keep the SD version of the NY nets. I had simply forgotten, and was about to lose NY.
On another topic, I too am concerned about the HD TiVo swap.
But with the almost-free current HD TiVo sale, I got a second one. If I need to swap a DVR to get MPEG4 (and as I know from folks at El Segundo DirecTV is desperately trying to find a way to upgrade the HD TiVos to MPEG4 via a software fix) I'll simply send them back the new one -- and keep my expanded original machine for OTA use.
At any rate, I just wanted to swim a little upstream and commend the various retention CSRs I have dealt with over the past months.
They have been knowledgeable and very helpful.
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Old 08-19-2005, 06:23 PM   #24 (Print)
inaka
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Originally Posted by FlWingNut
And once in a while I even see something that makes me pause and go back.

You saw the trailer for Dukes of Hazzard with Jessica Simpson too, eh?
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Old 08-19-2005, 06:56 PM   #25 (Print)
elbodude
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobbyG123
I have a question. Most of you (us) are pretty active with Hi-Fi/home theater technology. Why then are so many of you "afraid" to lose your Tivo software? I know Tivo is great. I love my new box. With that said, I'll master the new DVR in a matter of days, so why worry about it?

I'm not trying to sound confrontational, but as long as the new DVR's allow me to pause live TV, have 2 tuner capability, and let me record one program while I watch another, does anything else really matter?



YES! Try the Comcast DVR. While it is recording a show and you hit the channel change button, it says are you sure? Then is says if you want to continue to record you must "manually" swith to the other tuner. TIVO is smart enough to figure this out, and does it on the fly.
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Old 08-19-2005, 07:04 PM   #26 (Print)
kturcotte
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Originally Posted by elbodude
YES! Try the Comcast DVR. While it is recording a show and you hit the channel change button, it says are you sure? Then is says if you want to continue to record you must "manually" swith to the other tuner. TIVO is smart enough to figure this out, and does it on the fly.


Try my aunt's Time Warner DVR. Say you want to just not record a certain episode of a season pass (don't record this episode). Can't do it-you either have to let it record or delete the ENTIRE season pass. Real smart!!
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Old 08-19-2005, 07:07 PM   #27 (Print)
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Originally Posted by BarneyTC
I wish D* would "outsource" their CSR operation to India. At least then the people answering the phone would have some technical knowledge. The current crew are just a bunch of minimally trained, minimum wage morons, sitting in front of terminals, reading back "FAQ" answers to whoever calls in.


Ouch, that hurts. Have you ever been in a Call Center enviroment that handles the many many issues of a 14 million and counting customer base? Of course 13,000 differant CSR's are not always going to have the same exact answer ever time, there are bound to be errors, that is just probibility. Directv CSR's are not told details about future works on purpose. Think about it.
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Old 08-19-2005, 07:27 PM   #28 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runch Machine
When I told a friend of mine about the coming change and that Directv was not going to sell HD-Tivo at some point in the future he said that he'd never switch to an HD DVR if it didn't have 30 second skip. He doesn't have an HDTV yet. He went on to say he'd rather watch a show in black and white if that was the only way to have a DVR with 30 second skip.


I don't get that one either. I tried the 30ff routine for a while and I didn't really find it any better than triple fast forward, plus it redefined the key. Commercial breaks aren't in convenient 30s packages.
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Old 08-19-2005, 09:46 PM   #29 (Print)
AbMagFab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick1m
I just spoke with d* today since I was in the market to purchase a HDtivo. I asked him what will happen when the new satellites come online and use the MPEG4 format instead of the MPEG2. I was told that when this occurs D* will REPLACE my hdtivo with a MPEG4 compatible dvr free of charge. I know it won't be a TIVO but at least I won't have to shell out more $$$ to stay current.

Just wanted to let you know my experience


Yeah, right. Then ask them where that information is public. They have that in their system, but there's no public information confirming that. The only press releases say they will let us know when the switch occurs.

Good luck getting a free swap. Until there's a public statement saying this, I don't believe it.

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Old 08-19-2005, 11:23 PM   #30 (Print)
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MPEG 4 compatible DVR free of charge... my worry is that this statement says nothing about HD. It may be implied, but until they spell it out I continue to be pessimistic.

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