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Old 09-22-2005, 04:06 AM   #1 (Print)
cwaring
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A New TV

I may or may not have mentioned that my Gran passed-away last March. Well, I have recently found out that there is an inheritance to come to me. Don't know the value yet. I don't want to sound awful, of course I'd rather have Gran back but it does mean that I can maybe afford to buy a couple of items.

One will be a Yamaha DGX piano, but I think the other is more relevant to this site... A new TV!

I know there's a lot of techheads in here, so I thought I'd ask opinions.

Forgetting about HD for now as the cheapest one I can find is nearly £500!

I think I've narrowed it down to these two:

SAMSUNG WS28A116DSXXEU £328
28" 100hz pure flat widescreen idtv

PHILIPS 24PW6518 £250
24" pure flat widescreen tv

Although I'd prefer a Philips (dunno why, just always had one!) I like the look of the Samsung as it's both 100Hz and Freeview. However, two questions I'd like to ask.

1. Advantages of 100Hz. I think this has been mentioned before but I'd appreciate if someone would re-clarify for me. I believe this would stop the flicker from the Tivo, yes? Anything else?

2. IDTV. I am aware that these sort of Digital TVs don't work with Tivo. Of course, this doesn't matter to me as I have Cable. A though has occured while writing this.... I suppose it would be a sore point if I had (for whatever reason) to ditch CableTV as I wouldn't, of course, be able to use it with my Tivo A good case for *not* buying it, I suppose However, assuming the status stays quo, would I have any problem using my DVD Recorder to record off the Freeview channels with this TV?

Does anyone have any other make/model suggestions up to around £350-400?

Thanks guys!

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Old 09-22-2005, 07:47 AM   #2 (Print)
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As to the 100Hz question, this depends on the manufacturer/model and your ability to detect, and be irritated by, 50Hz flicker.

As far as I'm aware, there is no standard for 100Hz, and so manufacturers use different patent algorithms for creating a 100Hz picture. Anyway, some TV's seem to manage it much better than others.

Since I notice the 50Hz flicker, I use 100Hz with my (non-current model) Sony, and find it much better. People with other models of TV appear to notice problems with 100Hz and fast-moving objects. I would suggest getting a dealer to demonstrate the difference on any potential model, and check whether it can be turned off. From my experience, I would definitely recommend it.

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Old 09-22-2005, 08:44 AM   #3 (Print)
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Just don't post sometime in the future "I can't afford a lifetime sub".
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Old 09-22-2005, 09:02 AM   #4 (Print)
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Stuart, I can definately see the 'flicker' on my current TV

pgogborn, if you have nothing constuctive to say, please say nothing at all

Hmmm... just checked again on Comet's sight and there are no 100Hz TV that don't have built-in DTT. How odd! Well, there's one... a Samsung @ £500

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Old 09-22-2005, 09:43 AM   #5 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwaring
pgogborn, if you have nothing constuctive to say, please say nothing at all

Your remarks on cable television seemed to give a clear indication that you anticipated using your TiVo for some time to come.

I was giving you a hint on how to save money in the long term.

Buy a lifetime sub. Postpone the television purchase, putting the equivalent of the monthly sub into your piggy bank until such time you have got enough to add to the balance of the inheritance to buy the television of your choice. In time it will be as if you are getting an additional monthly inheritance equal in amount to the monthly sub.
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Old 09-22-2005, 09:54 AM   #6 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgogborn
Your remarks on cable television seemed to give a clear indication that you anticipated using your TiVo for some time to come.

Possibly. It depends how reliable TW PVR is when it is released.

Quote:
I was giving you a hint on how to save money in the long term.

Having spent around £500 by now on monthly subs and as I may not get another 20 months of use out of my Tivo (based on comment above!), I think I'll pass on the lifetime sub for now, if you don't mind

Besides, a regular income for Tivo is less likely to mean the stop the service (We haven't argued that one for while, have we )

Also, depending on the amount of said inheritance, there may be enough for everything

Quote:
Postpone the television purchase...

Seeing as how I've been waiting for about five years to have the money to buy a new TV, I think I'll stick to my original plan, thanks.

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Old 09-22-2005, 10:10 AM   #7 (Print)
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Have you considered a bigger screen ?

I built some piles of boxes, with with paper on the front (best Blue Peter style) representing a 28" and 32" TV on a stand. The 28" wasn't all that smaller than a 32" (Panasonic in my case) as in the 32" the "frame" round the TV is smaller on than on the 28" set. Also as both stands were much the same height their was not much difference between 28" and 32" in terms of volume occupied. Of course you get a bigger screen with the 32" (and a lighter wallet).

Yes I got 100Hz as well, I find the 50Hz flicker annoying on large sets. You do get 100Hz artifacts, say on horizontal scrolling text (ie Teletubbies credits) but generally not noticable.

I also build a cardboard 37" and 42" plasma and I think the 37" plasma was not much bigger frontal area than some 32" TVs, so if considering 32" might want to consider 37" plasma (wallet allowing).

I very conveniently found a 42" plasma would have fitted wonderfully in my lounge either on the wall of in the corner, but cost put me off.

Last edited by Ian_m : 09-22-2005 at 10:14 AM. Reason: Correct spelling and in English...
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Old 09-22-2005, 10:17 AM   #8 (Print)
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I'm a Panasonic fan, always have been. I like the remotes, (not that I use them much with the Tivo, but I hate the Sonys). The widescreen switching works well - i.e it uses 4:3 or 16:9, unlike others I've seen that insist on a stretch and cut mismatch.

The TX28DTM1 looks reasonable and is digital, although only 50Hz. Well priced at <£300. If you can stretch, the 28DTX11 looks very nice and is 100hz, but is pushing £500.

Prices from Currys, not a recomendation, but the first site I visited.

Ian_m is right about the 32", they're not always as big as you think - it took my mum ages to accept that her new 28" widescreen is the same size (height) as her old 21". But the cost difference is a fair bit - the 32" version of the DTM1 I mentioned is over £500.

As for whether or not to do iDTV, well, during the lifetime of the TV you'll have to go digital, so it depends on if you want another box.
I appreciate you have TW, but sometimes you can't resolve clashes without two tuners. (in TW's case, four!)

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Old 09-22-2005, 10:56 AM   #9 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyem
As for whether or not to do iDTV, well, during the lifetime of the TV you'll have to go digital, so it depends on if you want another box.

I don't really, but it might be better in the long-run; ie for possible use with Tivo at a later date.

Quote:
I appreciate you have TW, but sometimes you can't resolve clashes without two tuners. (in TW's case, four!)

Indeed. There's one such clash this week Luckily I should have my brothers Tivo to help with that, while a Network it up

Thanks for the other tips. Will check out the Panny's

Edited to add: Was looking at the Panny TX28PM12 earlier, as it happens. They also do the one you mention.

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Old 09-22-2005, 11:01 AM   #10 (Print)
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Good Afternoon.

Carl, firstly, sorry to hear about your nan.

I have and have used a LG 32" 100Hz CRT for a few years.

Personally I would never buy a 100Hz TV again, for the following reasons.
If you don't know how CRT TV's work, this is a very quick lesson, a standard CRT TV, amplifies the analogue signal that it receives from the tuner and zaps it on the screen as it arrives from the transmitters.

A 100HZ TV does not do this, it has to digitally store the frame to draw it twice as the next frame is being stored.
Two problems with this are, Digital artifacts, particulary shading, you will notice shadows and in particular Dark scenes, terrible.
The other, as a avid xboxer, because of the delay (about 25mSecs) from a CRT this makes a impression on response times, seriously it does. I am a Toca 2 Race Driver!!, played over 3000 racers, I always get better times on the CRT as the 25 mS delay can make a difference during quick corrections in a corner.. I am being serious... Also with games, the colour shading on dark maps (Ghost Recon SS, badlands, if anyone knows it) is really poor on a 100Hz TV.

Some sets allow you to turn off the 100Hz, I wish I could.


Before I go, I would not worry about intergraded freeview, a freeview box is what? £29 if you look around.

Talking about freeview boxes, I have the new Humax 9200-t on order

http://www.humaxdigital.com/uk/products/pvr-9200t.asp

It is not for me, but for the MIL, but it has USB 2 support to view PC stuff and for the PC to stream from I think, apparently the PC software will allow you to edit things recorded on the 160GB HDD on the PVR, looks nice.

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Old 09-22-2005, 11:02 AM   #11 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwaring
I don't really, but it might be better in the long-run; ie for possible use with Tivo at a later date.


That's a very good point. Didn't someone come out with a kludge to fix one of those old Pace freeview boxes inside the tivo?

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Old 09-22-2005, 11:12 AM   #12 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwaring
Was looking at the Panny TX28PM12 earlier, as it happens. They also do the one you mention.


I bought my last TV from them about 4-5 years ago. They were very good, although the couriers were a bit useless. But hey, aren't most of them?

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Old 09-22-2005, 11:35 AM   #13 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyem
That's a very good point. Didn't someone come out with a kludge to fix one of those old Pace freeview boxes inside the tivo?

For those who want a freeview add-on to their TiVO which is out of sight, this combined scart plug / freeview adapter could be useful:

The iDaptor will be available on the High Street from mid October 2005 >
http://www.digitalhomemag.com/news/...bsectionid=1308
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Old 09-22-2005, 11:36 AM   #14 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwaring
Stuart, I can definately see the 'flicker' on my current TV
Must have missed Stuart's post.

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Old 09-22-2005, 12:44 PM   #15 (Print)
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Damn! Sorry, Ian

Also, I think I mis-spoke. What I meant was, I can see the flicker on the Tivo menus. The actual TV picture is fine. Hmmm... I wonder if there's some sort of anti-flicker hack available for Tivo.

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Old 09-22-2005, 02:02 PM   #16 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6022tivo
A 100HZ TV does not do this, it has to digitally store the frame to draw it twice as the next frame is being stored.
I don't think that they just display the same frame twice. I believe that they try to difference two input frames to generate an in-between frame. Some algorithms are rather better at that than others.

Also, I would hope that a TV with an integrated DTT tuner would use the digital data to perform this, and not go through a digital->analogue->digital->analogue conversion. However, I suspect that using existing components will mean that they probably do perform all of that conversion.

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Old 09-22-2005, 02:58 PM   #17 (Print)
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Ian I though the scan is basically twice as fast, it writes the frame twice?.

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Old 09-22-2005, 06:25 PM   #18 (Print)
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another minor problem with 100Hz TV's - you can't play lightgun video games (Time Crisis, Point Blank etc.) with them unless they can be switched into 50Hz mode.

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Old 09-23-2005, 09:04 AM   #19 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6022tivo
Ian I though the scan is basically twice as fast, it writes the frame twice?.


I was resisting the urge to comment on 100Hz TVs, but I will reproduce here two postings from usenet which explains the issues very well. It's worth spending a few minutes reading, once you get your head around what has to be done to display 100Hz you will appreciate more the wide variety in the results on consumer equipment.


Message-ID: <ant131621064LJLo@ether228.cam.pace.co.uk>
Newsgroups: uk.media.home-cinema

In article <20001213075736.23864.00002667@nso-fl.aol.com>, David Perry
<URL:mailto:dperry3935@aol.com.NJM> wrote:

> In article <ant131113bbaLJLo@ether228.cam.pace.co.uk>, "A.Hodgkinson"
> <andrew.hodgkinson@pace.co.uk> writes:
>
> > In article <FntZ5.40699$eT4.3332712@nnrp3.clara.net>, Double Doom
> > <URL:mailto:djd.news@btinternet.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Some people get an opinion and do not change that opinion even if
> > > the technology moves on. 100hz sets when they first came out had a
> > > number of problems. That is not necessarily the case now
> > > however.
> >
> > It is, since many broadcasts are still at 50 fields/sec, not 25
> > frame/sec, and as long as there can be motion between the fields
> > the same fundamental reason why 100Hz sets are stuffed exists. A
> > 100Hz set must invent picture information.
>
> Why?

Oh well, here we go again... =8*P

Suppose a tennis ball travels on-screen from the bottom left hand to
top right hand corner of the screen. It takes 3/50ths of a second to
do this. The broadcaster is using standard, interlaced video cameras
to transmit the pictures.

The 50 Hz set does this:

Time (s) Field Picture
0.00 1st Tennis ball in bottom left hand corner
0.02 2nd Tennis ball in middle of screen
0.04 3rd Tennis ball in top right hand corner
0.06 4th Bright flash - a spectator takes a flash photo
0.08...

A 100Hz set, in its most crude form, would just repeat each field
twice. But this doesn't eliminate flicker; line twitter will still
happen as the fields are still alternating odd-even 25 times a
second, which is visible. So the 100Hz manufacturer makes the set
digitise the two fields. The first field is shown, then the second,
then the first again, then the second, then we move onto the next
frame.

So our simple anti-twitter 100Hz set does this:

Time (s) Field Picture
0.00 1st Tennis ball in bottom left hand corner
0.01 2nd Tennis ball in middle of screen
0.02 1st Tennis ball (back) in bottom left hand corner
0.03 2nd Tennis ball in middle of screen
0.04 3rd Tennis ball in top right hand corner
0.05 4th Bright flash - a spectator takes a flash photo
0.06 3rd Tennis ball in top right hand corner
0.07 4th Bright flash (again) - spectator takes photo
0.08...

Oh dear. That's obviously totally broken; the ball moves forwards,
then backwards, then jumps forward, and then there's a double flash
from the photograph that someone took. Disaster.

Possible solutions:

1) Give up and just show field 1, field 1, field 2, field 2. Yes,
you *do* elimintate persistence based full-frame flicker, which
normally you can best see out of the corner of your eye if the
whole screen is a bright colour, especially all white. But this
doesn't elimiate the real killer, 25Hz line twitter, which gets
more important the larger the TV, since the scan lines are
physically taller. You'll also make stuff look juddery because
of the psychoperceptual effects of viewing a scanned device;
the brain expects motion between the pictures, but instead it
sees the same thing twice. This is what causes the "blurring"
effect you see with things like horizontal scrolling credits when
100Hz TVs are put into what they call "50Hz mode", but still scan
at 100Hz.

2) Ignore the artifacts and hope everyone uses progressive sources.
Here, the 1st and 2nd interlace fields all come from the same
picture - there's no motion between the two. This would work
really well, and look great, but unfortunately very few TVs offer
such a simple mode because if you had any interlaced video shown,
it'd look awful, as demonstrated, and users can't be trusted to
switch it themselves rather than just complain the TV is broken.

3) Use method (1), and run a vertical flicker filter - literally,
blur the display vertically. Similar kinds of things to reduce
flicker to acceptable levels is in theory done at the broadcast
end or the mastering end (for e.g. DVDs) but people still see
a flicker. Anyway, this blurs the display; bad. Some TVs do this
all the same... You often can't turn it off. We had a Phillips
TV in the office for ages which would show a fairly flickery
static picture for about half a second, then you'd see an anti
flicker (blur!) filter run across the screen when the TV decided
there was no motion so it could get away with it.

4) The final and commonly used solution is to interpolate between
the fields. So you show the first field, then an interpolation
between fields 1 and 2, then the second, then interpolation
between 2 and 3, and so-on. There are some pretty sophisticated
motion tracking algorithms inside even relatively cheap 100Hz
sets, but this can be easily confused by noise, MPEG artifacts
(see below), things moving counterways (e.g. left hand scrolling
gameshow credits whilst the host walks to the right to chat to
the winning contestant). Anyway, you're inventing stuff that
doesn't exist in the original transmission.

The fact that (4) is the only remotely acceptable solution, assuming
it is used in conjunction with at least (3) and hoping that the TV
offers (2) as an option or could do (1) in true 50Hz rather than
pseudo-50Hz, is my answer to your question of "Why?".

That's the fundamental reason - interlaced video source cannot be
double scanned without artifacting. Meanwhile, there's the whole
issue of digitising the incoming video signal in order to repeat or
interpolate frames in the first place.

This can be a severe problem. It should be possible to do this with
minimal degredation, though there must be at least *some* even in
the best possible circuitry as there's a two stage conversion to
digital and back to analogue going on that a 50Hz set avoids.
Unfortunately cheapo DACs, ADCs and/or framestores plus odd
processing usually results in crushing of bit depth. The result is
posterisation - banding - effects on areas with similar tone, e.g.
clear skies, shiny metals e.g. clean cars, etc. and can be really
annoying.

Digital TV uses MPEG compression, and the blocking and posterisation
this produces to a greater or lesser degree depending on source
quality and transmission bit depth are one reason why you sometimes
see people say that 100Hz and DTV don't mix; the added posterisation
of the TV can amplify the original MPEG problems to a level where
they become obvious when before it'd be fine, and the moving edges
and blocks that a human can barely see can really confuse motion
tracking stuff in 100Hz sets and lead

What amazes me is that people say 100Hz plus DVD is a marriage made
in heaven, almost in the same breath as they say 100Hz plus DTV is a
problem. DVD uses the same compression scheme as MPEG, and judging
from some of the discs I own, artifact-less high bitrate pictures
are clearly not a foregone conclusion! I guess DVD is at least
typically sufficiently better than digital TV over Sky or Digital
Terrestrial, that the problems described above don't get hit.

If all of the above sounds fine to you and acceptable in place of
the flicker of a 50Hz set, then get a 100Hz one. That's fine.

At least now I've a nice long post I should be able to refer people
to via. Deja next time the question gets asked...! :-)

--
TTFN, Andrew (on behalf of myself, not my employer).

"Hold tight, lad, and think of Lancashire Hotpot!" - A Grand Day Out

=============================

Message-ID: <sgbFB3G9E9zCFw9e@kennedym.demon.co.uk>
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv

In article <2l6tc19jus18qpd8033g7e3m1vd29se4cv@4ax.com>, Ken
<_ken_3_@telia.com> writes
>On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 13:53:37 +0100, "Brian Gregory [UK]" <ng@bgdsv.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>> I find scrolling text is almost unreadable on 100Hz TVs.
>
>Must be some other type of problem i some 100Hz TV.
>100Hz can't be the problem.
>
Yes it can, and it is.

How do you think that extra field of information is created between each
real 50Hz field? There are several options, each increasing in
complexity and hence level of implementation on 100Hz sets.

If you just replicate the image then very predictable visual motion
artefacts are created. The case under discussion is a textbook example
of the problem, if you forgive the pun. If you plot the position of one
character of the scrolling text along one axis of a graph, say the
horizontal axis, and the time it is displayed along the other axis then
you will plot out points on a straight line. That straight line is how
your eye tracks the text as it scrolls along the screen - effectively
the angular scan velocity of your fovea. If you now replicate each of
those points 10mS later, as field replication would do - and does in
many 100Hz sets - then simply add the same points to the graph offset in
the time axis by 10mS. Now look at what you have - two parallel lines
on the graph. The 100H image is displayed as a single piece of
information that starts and stops its scroll motion at twice the
original field rate, but it is naturally viewed as *TWO* pieces of
identical information, one trailing the other a short distance behind.
That is because you don't expect to see things stopping and scrolling
continuously at that sort of rate and your eyes and brain haven't
evolved a process to handle it. The 50-100Hz conversion has created
double images from simple motion - and it occurs on all movement, not
just continuous text scrolling.

You get exactly the same effect at the flicks, where the 24Hz frame is
flashed onto the screen by the cine projector usually 3 times. That is
why you sometimes see image breakup during panning on the cinema screen.
Usually they mitigate against this by using a wide shutter angle on the
camera - so that the image itself is quite blurred during the motion,
and the multiple image effect is less obvious. However some situations
don't allow for that, for example Steven Spielberg specifically used a
narrow shutter angle in the action shots of "Band of Brothers"
specifically to replicate the effect of live 1940s newsreel footage.
Even on the cinema screen projected from film rather than viewed on TV
from DVD the motion induced breakup is quite noticeable.

If you get a bit more advanced and create the image by interpolating the
intermediate 100Hz fields from the real 50Hz fields then the problem is
just as bad and in some ways actually worse, and you can see this on the
graph. By interpolating between the two frames the intermediate points
on the graph becomes the average of the two real data points on either
side. But this isn't the average along the position axis, it is the
average in the time axis - so each intermediate time has two position
points - one from the old field and one from the new field. The result
on the graph is that instead of two lines now, you have a single central
line with two shadow lines, one leading and the other lagging the main
line - and that is what you see on the display, a triple image, two of
which have half the intensity of the central one. When the motion is
sufficiently slow, these half intensity images just appear as a
pulsating blur of the main image - similar to the pulsating blur of some
video converted from 60Hz to 50Hz and for exactly the same reasons.

The only real way to avoid these artefacts is to use some advanced
motion prediction - break the image up into objects, not pixels, and
then track how those objects move and distort between the real 50Hz
frames so that their position and shape can be predicted at the
intermediate frames. On the graph that I suggest you draw out, you can
then put the 100Hz position of the text at the predicted position -
between the two 50Hz points, to create a clean straight line at 100Hz.
Now, fairly obviously, breaking the image down into objects as opposed
to pixels is certainly not a trivial exercise, so it should be no
surprise that few 100Hz TVs actually do that, and even those that do it
only do so at a very crude level. Consequently the results among even
the better 100Hz machines are quite variable - not just between sets,
but on the same set between different types of images.

So, yes, the problem is one of the 100Hz display, or rather an
inevitable consequence of however your set manufacturer tries to get a
100Hz display from what is only 50Hz data.
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Old 09-23-2005, 09:16 AM   #20 (Print)
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And as Mr Tickle so succinctly puts it, some manufacturers get 100Hz right, and some get it wrong. Best to get a demo, and make sure that it is switchable if you're not sure.

At least this explains why I have no problems with 100Hz on my Sony, while other people find it unwatchable on their TVs. It's not me, it's the set.

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Old 09-23-2005, 09:19 AM   #21 (Print)
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I thought also some TV's do the 100Hz processing in the frequency domain, using technology and techniques from MPEG encoding ? ie convert two fields to frequency domain as per MPEG encoding, look for where the blocks had moved to between fields and interpolate the intermediate field.
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Old 09-23-2005, 01:25 PM   #22 (Print)
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This might not be very constuctive either, Carl. but unless your telly no longer works, why not hang on till next year and see how HDTV pans out?
  • Tellys might get cheaper.
  • FreeView, or more likely FreeSat, might carry HDTV
  • TiVo might bring out an HD model in the UK

Seriously, I think it might pay to wait, if you can.

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Old 09-23-2005, 03:21 PM   #23 (Print)
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You could be right, eric, but...
  • Telly's will always get cheaper
  • Got CableTV
  • Yeah, right

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Old 09-23-2005, 04:41 PM   #24 (Print)
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I think eric is right. It's a particularly bad time to be buying a new TV! The fact that a full 7 years after the launch of DTT it is still possible to buy an analogue-only TV notwithstanding, it is a bad time because we are now on the brink of the next transition. This will be the move away from good CRT/variable quality plasmas&LCDs towards nice hi-def OLED and SED flatscreens displays (http://www.ezinearticles.com/?Flat-...Plasma&id=35478).

If you really need a new one I'd just get a Bush TV from your local supermarket. It'll be very good value, better than some of the other rubbish no-name imports they also sell, without being a big investment that you're stuck with for years.
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Old 09-23-2005, 05:34 PM   #25 (Print)
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Unfortunately (as you should know by now!) I am not in the position to be able to afford bleeding-edge technology. The fact that I am only now asking about Widescreen should also be another clue

Besides, my eyesight isn't brilliant; hence the specs. I can't even tell that much of a difference between the High and Best setting on my Tivo so I don't think Hi-Def will do anythng for me (I say that with my tongue only part-way in my cheek!)

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Old 09-23-2005, 05:41 PM   #26 (Print)
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In that case, why not go for a larger screen and keep the refresh rate down to 50hz?

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Old 09-23-2005, 05:41 PM   #27 (Print)
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So, in what way is the picture and/or sound on your existing television inadequate?
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Old 09-24-2005, 04:25 AM   #28 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgogborn
So, in what way is the picture and/or sound on your existing television inadequate?
Yeah, Carl, justify your decision!

Seriously, this is what I was getting at; do you need a new telly, or just want one?

@Mrtickle Thanks for the link; I read a bit about OLED five years ago; it would be great if it's finally becoming available.

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Old 09-24-2005, 06:22 AM   #29 (Print)
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@pgogborn Does it *really* matter to you? The thread isn't called "Do I need a new TV?", is it!

I suppose I don't *need* a new one. Yeah, that's it. I just want to waste £300 of a small inheritence on something I don't need. I'm really a millionair with money to burn

As it happens, the sound is fine. The picture's a little too dark on the dark bits though; even when I tweak the settings. Also, the telly itself was second-hand (or maybe refurbished, not sure!) when I bought it about 7 years ago and has already been repaired twice since I've had it.

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Old 09-24-2005, 09:28 AM   #30 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwaring
@pgogborn Does it *really* matter to you? The thread isn't called "Do I need a new TV?", is it!

It always matters to me when I think somebody may be rushing into a bad financial decision, even if that person is somebody such as, well fill in your own blank.

But I am the geek who goes to the library to read the back copies of Which? when buying a large consumer item and who, last time he purchased a television, devoted more than a whole day in total trailing around electronic stores comparing pictures and sound to find one that matched my personal preference for refresh rate and quality, contrast, focus etc. As mrtickle sort of points out, purchasing recommendations can vary depending on whether or not you watch a lot of fast moving sport.
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