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Old 09-22-2005, 08:57 PM   #1 (Print)
buddhawood
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Tivo 1 year MINIMUM agreement???

Please correct me if I'm wrong ( and I hope I am!) I just saw this on the Tivo site

WITH RESPECT TO ANY NEW TIVO SERVICE SUBSCRIPTION ACTIVATED ON OR AFTER SEPTEMBER 6, 2005, YOU AGREE TO SUBSCRIBE TO THE TIVO SERVICE FOR NO LESS THAN 12 MONTHS (THE "SERVICE COMMITMENT"). IF YOU FAIL TO MEET THE SERVICE COMMITMENT BY CANCELLING YOUR SUBSCRIPTION TO THE TIVO SERVICE (OR IF TIVO TERMINATES YOUR SUBSCRIPTION TO THE TIVO SERVICE DUE TO A BREACH OF THIS AGREEMENT), YOU AGREE THAT TIVO MAY CHARGE YOU A $150 EARLY TERMINATION FEE, AND YOU AGREE TO PAY ANY SUCH EARLY TERMINATION FEE.

I know that this a requirement for the rebate but it is also stated for sign up of USED units? If this is true I think I may have just signed up my last unit. I like the option of having service for a few months and then sell it and try another one.

Does anyone have any other info on this? I tried a search and found nothing under service agreements concerning used(non-rebate) units
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Old 09-22-2005, 09:16 PM   #2 (Print)
pldoolittle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddhawood
Please correct me if I'm wrong ( and I hope I am!) I just saw this on the Tivo site

WITH RESPECT TO ANY NEW TIVO SERVICE SUBSCRIPTION ACTIVATED ON OR AFTER SEPTEMBER 6, 2005, YOU AGREE TO SUBSCRIBE TO THE TIVO SERVICE FOR NO LESS THAN 12 MONTHS (THE "SERVICE COMMITMENT"). IF YOU FAIL TO MEET THE SERVICE COMMITMENT BY CANCELLING YOUR SUBSCRIPTION TO THE TIVO SERVICE (OR IF TIVO TERMINATES YOUR SUBSCRIPTION TO THE TIVO SERVICE DUE TO A BREACH OF THIS AGREEMENT), YOU AGREE THAT TIVO MAY CHARGE YOU A $150 EARLY TERMINATION FEE, AND YOU AGREE TO PAY ANY SUCH EARLY TERMINATION FEE.

I know that this a requirement for the rebate but it is also stated for sign up of USED units? If this is true I think I may have just signed up my last unit. I like the option of having service for a few months and then sell it and try another one.

Does anyone have any other info on this? I tried a search and found nothing under service agreements concerning used(non-rebate) units



I'm not sure about that, but I do know that your comittment is not tied to any one box. I have rotated around between three boxes several times and not had an issue with a Tivo. Basically tivo is trying to capture revenue. As long as you keep paying $13/mo, I don't think they really care which tivo is listed in your account.

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Old 09-22-2005, 09:19 PM   #3 (Print)
dswallow
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If you have multiple units you're probably not affected by that language at all since the language doesn't seem to be unit-specific but refers instead to having a subscription.
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Old 09-22-2005, 11:50 PM   #4 (Print)
buddhawood
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dswallow
If you have multiple units you're probably not affected by that language at all since the language doesn't seem to be unit-specific but refers instead to having a subscription.


I do have multiple units and when I was going to sign another one up it listed the fee as $6.95/month multi- unit discount and stated the 1 year committment or $150 penalty underneath it.
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Old 09-23-2005, 12:57 AM   #5 (Print)
Alvis
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This could hurt Tivo sales since it sounds just like how DSL operates. After moving twice in last three years, I got shafted by two early DSL termination fees. Cable modem costs more but I love the comfort of being able to cancel anytime.
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Old 09-23-2005, 07:16 AM   #6 (Print)
ZeoTiVo
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this is just not a good thing
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Old 09-23-2005, 08:15 AM   #7 (Print)
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I agree with Zeo, this isn't good. On another note, would this apply to only the first year of your service, or do you now have to end your service around your anniversary date.

I remember having a pager several years ago that worked like that. You had to cancel, in writing, 30 days prior to your anniversary date or you were fined. I was only able to get out of it because I moved and they didn't offer service in my new area.

I'm not saying TiVo actually works like this, but it does make me remember that sleazy tactic to keep me using a poor product and service. TiVo hasn't gotten there yet, but it still feels sleazy to me.

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Old 09-23-2005, 09:36 AM   #8 (Print)
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Early termination fees are for companies that can't compete on service and features -- I hope Tivo isn't giving up.
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Old 09-23-2005, 09:39 AM   #9 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parzec
Early termination fees are for companies that can't compete on service and features -- I hope Tivo isn't giving up.

Early termination fees are for companies subsidizing the purchase of their equipment in order to entice you to subscribe. Common practice.

Now if you're activting used equipment, the subsidizing should already have been paid for in subscription revenue, so there's valid reason to complain about such a requirement.

And if the fee isn't being prorated for the 12 months required, there's another valid reason to complain.

But the fee itself really isn't unreasonable in the scheme of new equipment purchases. Although I really wonder if it's worthwhile in terms of bad publicity vs. what they'll actually recover from it.
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Old 09-23-2005, 12:49 PM   #10 (Print)
elrcastor
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It's here http://www.tivo.com/5.11.2.asp
Quote:
8. Subscription Fees and Service Commitment. You agree to pay your subscription fee in advance. Your subscription fee will cover the TiVo service received via a TiVo DVR authorized by TiVo to enable the TiVo service. You have a choice of subscription payment options that may change over time. You may switch payment options at the end of each period. If for any reason you need to reactivate your subscription, you may be charged a reactivation fee. If you are signing up for the TiVo service under a promotional subscription fee, some additional restrictions may apply. If you have multiple TiVo service subscriptions under the same account information, additional terms and conditions may apply. Whatever your subscription payment option, your subscription fee does not include any services, features or functionality other than the TiVo service. WITH RESPECT TO ANY NEW TIVO SERVICE SUBSCRIPTION ACTIVATED ON OR AFTER SEPTEMBER 6, 2005, YOU AGREE TO SUBSCRIBE TO THE TIVO SERVICE FOR NO LESS THAN 12 MONTHS (THE "SERVICE COMMITMENT"). IF YOU FAIL TO MEET THE SERVICE COMMITMENT BY CANCELLING YOUR SUBSCRIPTION TO THE TIVO SERVICE (OR IF TIVO TERMINATES YOUR SUBSCRIPTION TO THE TIVO SERVICE DUE TO A BREACH OF THIS AGREEMENT), YOU AGREE THAT TIVO MAY CHARGE YOU A $150 EARLY TERMINATION FEE, AND YOU AGREE TO PAY ANY SUCH EARLY TERMINATION FEE.

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Old 09-23-2005, 02:37 PM   #11 (Print)
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That last bold type tells me that it is only a NEW subscriptions. Activating a used box to your existing account should not be a problem. Activating a used box as your first subscription could be sticky.....

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Old 09-23-2005, 02:40 PM   #12 (Print)
interactiveTV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dswallow
Early termination fees are for companies subsidizing the purchase of their equipment in order to entice you to subscribe. Common practice.

Now if you're activting used equipment, the subsidizing should already have been paid for in subscription revenue, so there's valid reason to complain about such a requirement.
Yup. probably smacks the non-lifetime service secondary market for Tivos but I guess an analysis of Ebay pricing might prove that wrong in the coming weeks. Then again, I sometimes see things sell on Ebay for more than they would cost in a store anyway.

It also gives the cable companies a nice advantage. No minimum on the DVRs here in NYC. Try it, keep it, don't.

It does seem a little strange. First, Tivo was phasing out the rebates and trying to make a profit, then it's back to heavy rebates (with the 1 year service). Now, it appears this gives them the ability to ditch the rebates and just under-cost price the boxes. Or maybe Tivo Basic customers were upgrading then downgrading.

I don't know. It certainly isn't from a position of stength that a company makes such a move.

I do pity the first person to try and cancel on the 32nd day. Instead of another month of charges, guess what? $150!

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Old 09-23-2005, 02:49 PM   #13 (Print)
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I wouldn't have a problem with this is if it came with severely cheaper boxes, like an 80 hour model for $50-$100 MSRP - NO rebates or other shenanigans. If OTOH they keep charging what they are for the box I'm not sure what the point is. If they've been subsidizing all along and need to hold new customers to recoup the subsidy, wasn't their churn already low enough not to need ETFs? Has that changed? If they haven't been subsidizing so far, what costs are the ETF meant to recoup?

The only way I see this makes sense is as part of a plan to make cost of entry for new customers drastically lower.
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Old 09-23-2005, 02:53 PM   #14 (Print)
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I think this has something to do with the fact that they are practically giving away units for free...maybe???

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Old 09-23-2005, 03:08 PM   #15 (Print)
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whatever the reason, and the ones listed above all seem reasonable ones, it is just going to make TiVo a harder sell. Now there is a subscription and you have to do at least a year. if you have TiVo and love it thta is no big deal but if you want to find out what TiVo is now you have to commit for a year or go cable and not think about for how long.
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Old 09-23-2005, 03:26 PM   #16 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeoTiVo
whatever the reason, and the ones listed above all seem reasonable ones, it is just going to make TiVo a harder sell. Now there is a subscription and you have to do at least a year. if you have TiVo and love it thta is no big deal but if you want to find out what TiVo is now you have to commit for a year or go cable and not think about for how long.


Agreed. I have a co-worker on the DVR fence at the moment. No way he could be talked into committing to a year's worth of service. Also, do you think this will increase the use of lifetime service? If you are committing to $150, why not just go $300 and forget about it?
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Old 09-23-2005, 03:29 PM   #17 (Print)
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TiVo Institutes 1 Year Service Contracts

By Ed Oswald, BetaNews
September 23, 2005, 2:56 PM
A recent change made to TiVo's customer agreement has opened up the door to allow the company to institute service contracts. Although it is unclear as to why the change has been made, TiVo has recently endeavored to market the DVR service to new customers and contracts would keep those users from canceling.

According to the new service agreement, any TiVo activated after September 6 will require a 12-month commitment. Those who cancel before the end of their contract, or have their contracts terminated by TiVo, will be forced to pay a $150 early termination fee.

The change has already angered some users, who began to voice their complaints across TiVo enthusiast sites late Thursday. "This is just not a good thing," a user who identified himself as "ZeoTiVo" posted to the Tivo Community site. Another said the tactic felt "sleazy."

Although not specified in the new agreement, some customers have reported that adding a new TiVo to their service makes contracts activated before that date also applicable to the new policy.

This is certainly not the first time that TiVo has angered customers by making changes to its service. In late March, the company began testing new popup ads, but they disappeared shortly after the story became public.

A similar, less intrusive type of advertising was launched by TiVo in July, possibly reworked in response to those criticisms.

There may be good business reasoning behind the change in policy, as TiVo has begun to aggressively pursue new customers. In July, the DVR maker offered a $100 instant rebate on its set-top box for the first time in the company's history, which lasted through mid-August.

In September, TiVo increased the mail-in rebate to $150, bringing the cost of a TiVo system down to under $50. At that rate, it would take TiVo a little over a year in subscription fees to recoup the retail price of the unit.

Most recently, an offer with iRiver was launched that would give new iRiver PMC-120 buyers a free TiVo with one year of service pre-paid. All these promotions cost money, however, and for a company attempting to stay profitable, every dollar counts.

But some TiVo customers don't think the end result is worth it. "The fee itself really isn't unreasonable in the scheme of new equipment purchases," a TiVo user wrote. "Although I really wonder if it's worthwhile in terms of bad publicity vs. what they'll actually recover from it."

"I just activated my TiVo a week ago. I was so happy to get it working and now I feel locked in, which is what I didn't want with the lifetime contract," one new TiVo customer told BetaNews. "Apparently you have to read the fine print, because there is no mention of a service contract during the setup phase on tivo.com."

TiVo had not responded to requests for comment on the service agreement changes by press time.
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Old 09-23-2005, 03:33 PM   #18 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawson819
TiVo Institutes 1 Year Service Contracts

By Ed Oswald, BetaNews
September 23, 2005, 2:56 PM
A recent change made to TiVo's customer agreement has opened up the door to allow the company to institute service contracts. Although it is unclear as to why the change has been made, TiVo has recently endeavored to market the DVR service to new customers and contracts would keep those users from canceling.

According to the new service agreement, any TiVo activated after September 6 will require a 12-month commitment. Those who cancel before the end of their contract, or have their contracts terminated by TiVo, will be forced to pay a $150 early termination fee.

The change has already angered some users, who began to voice their complaints across TiVo enthusiast sites late Thursday. "This is just not a good thing," a user who identified himself as "ZeoTiVo" posted to the Tivo Community site. Another said the tactic felt "sleazy."

Although not specified in the new agreement, some customers have reported that adding a new TiVo to their service makes contracts activated before that date also applicable to the new policy.

This is certainly not the first time that TiVo has angered customers by making changes to its service. In late March, the company began testing new popup ads, but they disappeared shortly after the story became public.

A similar, less intrusive type of advertising was launched by TiVo in July, possibly reworked in response to those criticisms.

There may be good business reasoning behind the change in policy, as TiVo has begun to aggressively pursue new customers. In July, the DVR maker offered a $100 instant rebate on its set-top box for the first time in the company's history, which lasted through mid-August.

In September, TiVo increased the mail-in rebate to $150, bringing the cost of a TiVo system down to under $50. At that rate, it would take TiVo a little over a year in subscription fees to recoup the retail price of the unit.

Most recently, an offer with iRiver was launched that would give new iRiver PMC-120 buyers a free TiVo with one year of service pre-paid. All these promotions cost money, however, and for a company attempting to stay profitable, every dollar counts.

But some TiVo customers don't think the end result is worth it. "The fee itself really isn't unreasonable in the scheme of new equipment purchases," a TiVo user wrote. "Although I really wonder if it's worthwhile in terms of bad publicity vs. what they'll actually recover from it."

"I just activated my TiVo a week ago. I was so happy to get it working and now I feel locked in, which is what I didn't want with the lifetime contract," one new TiVo customer told BetaNews. "Apparently you have to read the fine print, because there is no mention of a service contract during the setup phase on tivo.com."

TiVo had not responded to requests for comment on the service agreement changes by press time.


Hey Zeo, they quoted us!

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Old 09-23-2005, 03:35 PM   #19 (Print)
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Judging from the other thing we saw where TIVo says 25% of units bought for Christmas last year were returned, this could just be an attempt to find an answer to that.

But I swear, as much as I like TiVo, I'm really looking more and more forward to the total divorce with DirecTV in the near future. They're repeatedly showing themselves incapable of controlling any sort of spin in the media, mainly because they don't seem able to look forward and comprehend what decisions they make now will do to their image.
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Old 09-23-2005, 04:55 PM   #20 (Print)
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"apparently the 12 month committment is only in effect if you use the $150 rebate. if you were a member before or a new subscriber that didn't use the rebate for whatever reason, you're in the clear."

you want them to survive or not? some people expect everything to be free. GET WITH THE TIMES this is like p2p rules have to be set...people use iTunes and people will use TiVo **** MythTV and **** Freevo
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Old 09-23-2005, 04:55 PM   #21 (Print)
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people who support copycat company's make me sick
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Old 09-23-2005, 04:59 PM   #22 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeoTiVo
this is just not a good thing

This got quoted on BetaNews >
http://www.betanews.com/article/TiV...acts/1127501776
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Old 09-23-2005, 05:26 PM   #23 (Print)
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No way! Really?
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Old 09-23-2005, 05:36 PM   #24 (Print)
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Originally Posted by Rawson819
No way! Really?

Sorry, I have got a bad habit of skipping over posts that are long cut and pastes of articles written by other people.
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Old 09-23-2005, 05:47 PM   #25 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgogborn
Sorry, I have got a bad habit of skipping over posts that are long cut and pastes of articles written by other people.


No problem...just give'n ya a hard time.

I've always liked it when someone posts the text of an article so I can read it within the forum, rather than clicking a link to read it elsewhere. Guess it's just a matter of preference.

That aside, it's cool that the author quoted TC members for his article!
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Old 09-23-2005, 06:34 PM   #26 (Print)
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I just about smeeked with the BetaNews article too.

P.S. This sucks!

This is not an attractive addition to the service at all. In fact, this may deter lots of newbies from trying out TiVo at all.

What are they thinking on this one? I thought they were trying to ramp up subscriber growth... this is a clear step in the wrong direction!

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Old 09-23-2005, 06:52 PM   #27 (Print)
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What's that you say?

A new christmas season offer of free tivo's for new subscribers?

well, the new guy did say that there would be a huge program to lure new subscribers coming soon.....
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Old 09-23-2005, 07:06 PM   #28 (Print)
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If Tivo just knocked $150 off of units, insteading of making us jump through rebate hoops, this would sit better with me.
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Old 09-23-2005, 09:02 PM   #29 (Print)
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Originally Posted by davezatz
If Tivo just knocked $150 off of units, insteading of making us jump through rebate hoops, this would sit better with me.



Now this I agree with. While it does allow them to book revenue against future earnings, rebates are a PITA and the non-fullfilment of most programs maked people very leary. I'm curious to see how it will play out.

FWIW, I did take advantage of it to get a new S2SA and I may do it for a 2nd one. BUT, I'm a Tivo lifer and not a newbie. Truthfully, I would have gotten a LT sub for this new one but my fears about TiVo's future held me off. Already been burned once by Circuit City/DivX.

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Old 09-23-2005, 09:12 PM   #30 (Print)
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sorry i think it's no way too.
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