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Old 10-12-2005, 08:30 AM   #121 (Print)
Billy Bob Boy
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I doubt if D* will do any kind of software upgrade for the Directivo. The calls that would ensue would be mountainus. I cant imagine going through all that trouble to turn off a non supported feature. What is the difference to D* FF or 30 skip. The y do the same thing basicly. I don't think the content providers care one way or another. To them anyway that we avoid commercials they dont like. Thats like saying that because heroin is stronger than cocain heroin is more illegal, and the cops care more about it if you have heroin than coke. (sorry I hate ludicrous comparisons but It had to be said) Now If they implemented something to disable FF all together that makes more sense. But if the y did I would demand my lifetime back and drop D* as well as 2.5 million others. And good luck selling a dvr that cant FF.

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Old 10-12-2005, 08:37 AM   #122 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moving Target
I just can't understand how you guys can have so many threads bashing something you have not used.



It's like those MAC users who bash PCs and have never used one

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Old 10-12-2005, 08:40 AM   #123 (Print)
jonaswan2
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Originally Posted by Steveknj
It's like those MAC users who bash PCs and have never used one


I for one am very excited about this product and about to cave in and spend the $50 for one already!
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Old 10-12-2005, 08:46 AM   #124 (Print)
Kevin L
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy Bob Boy
I doubt if D* will do any kind of software upgrade for the Directivo. The calls that would ensue would be mountainus. I cant imagine going through all that trouble to turn off a non supported feature. What is the difference to D* FF or 30 skip. The y do the same thing basicly. I don't think the content providers care one way or another. To them anyway that we avoid commercials they dont like. Thats like saying that because heroin is stronger than cocain heroin is more illegal, and the cops care more about it if you have heroin than coke. (sorry I hate ludicrous comparisons but It had to be said) Now If they implemented something to disable FF all together that makes more sense. But if the y did I would demand my lifetime back and drop D* as well as 2.5 million others. And good luck selling a dvr that cant FF.
I think even the content providers see a difference between FF and 30-second skip. The sole reason for the 30-second skip is to skip commercials (though I use FF and use 30-second only for football and baseball), while with FF you can still see the commercials, albeit at faster speed. Besides, all VCRs and DVD players have FF, but very few ever had a 30-second skip, which was really nothing more than a timed FF.

I'm not predicting when it will happen, just that it's likely it will. And DirecTV has already changed the behavior or closed unsupported features with updates. Regarding the mountainous amount of calls, they could simply add a recording or option to the phone menu that states "If you are calling about the loss of 30-second skip, be advised that this unsupported feature no longer works and will not be restored."

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Old 10-12-2005, 08:53 AM   #125 (Print)
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There are two things that would make me get the R15 and only as an ADDITION to my DTivos:

1) A LESS expensive HD DVR. The one thing that has stopped me from investing in HDTV is that the cost to upgrade my Tivo is so prohibitive. If I could get an HD DVR for under $100 and not additional monthly cost outside of the normal DVR fee, I would consider getting one and finally upgrading to HDTV.

2) A free (or under $25) R15 that I could use on the "satellite" TVs in my house (i.e. - bedroom, kids room, NOT living room TVs). I would just chuck my old standard RCA boxes and let the kids have the DVRs instead.

Otherwise, there is no compelling reason to buy an R15. If they cost the same as Tivos and I need a new one, I'll just get Tivo.

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Old 10-12-2005, 08:57 AM   #126 (Print)
jonaswan2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steveknj
There are two things that would make me get the R15 and only as an ADDITION to my DTivos:

1) A LESS expensive HD DVR. The one thing that has stopped me from investing in HDTV is that the cost to upgrade my Tivo is so prohibitive. If I could get an HD DVR for under $100 and not additional monthly cost outside of the normal DVR fee, I would consider getting one and finally upgrading to HDTV.

2) A free (or under $25) R15 that I could use on the "satellite" TVs in my house (i.e. - bedroom, kids room, NOT living room TVs). I would just chuck my old standard RCA boxes and let the kids have the DVRs instead.

Otherwise, there is no compelling reason to buy an R15. If they cost the same as Tivos and I need a new one, I'll just get Tivo.


They are $49 more. Mostlikely because of the bigger HD over the R10.
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Old 10-12-2005, 08:59 AM   #127 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steveknj
There are two things that would make me get the R15 and only as an ADDITION to my DTivos:

1) A LESS expensive HD DVR. The one thing that has stopped me from investing in HDTV is that the cost to upgrade my Tivo is so prohibitive. If I could get an HD DVR for under $100 and not additional monthly cost outside of the normal DVR fee, I would consider getting one and finally upgrading to HDTV.
I'm probably just reading your post incorrectly, but you do know the R15 is SD, not HD, don't you?

People that own HR10-250s all paid a wide range of prices. After rebates and/or incentives, I paid @ $650 for two of mine and $100 for the third one. Even though they were expensive, I don't know anyone that's sorry they paid for one. Time-shifting HD is so much better than SD.

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Old 10-12-2005, 09:45 AM   #128 (Print)
cmtar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jonaswan2
I for one am very excited about this product


Same here, whether it turns out to be crap its still a new FREE toy for me to play with.
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Old 10-12-2005, 09:57 AM   #129 (Print)
Steveknj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin L
I'm probably just reading your post incorrectly, but you do know the R15 is SD, not HD, don't you?

People that own HR10-250s all paid a wide range of prices. After rebates and/or incentives, I paid @ $650 for two of mine and $100 for the third one. Even though they were expensive, I don't know anyone that's sorry they paid for one. Time-shifting HD is so much better than SD.


Yes, I realize they are SD, so I should have said the HD version of the R15 (probably a different model number). To me, that is a pretty expensive price to pay for an HD DVR. First of all, if I'm not mistaken, D* charges you for HD programming, and DVR fees, so that is what, an additional $20 a month or so? Then you have to lay out about $299 for the DVR, or has the price dropped? Now, the cable companies charge MUCH less for HD. There are two factors right now why I haven't switched back to cable. One is the monitory investment I have made in D* equipment, and the other is Tivo, which so far, is head and shoulders better than what my cable co offers (Cablevision). An inexpensive DVR with all the features of Tivo that handles HD, would probably keep me with D* for life. Inexpensive to me is ideally under $50 for the equipment and an equivilant to cable, fee for HD programming.

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Old 10-12-2005, 10:08 AM   #130 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeckner
They may have the rights to the hardware, but I highly doubt that TiVo gave up any rights to the software, and the software is what drives the DVR, the hardware is almost worthless and the hardware functionality could be easily duplicated. All of the worth is in the patents for the software and software functionality, which DTV would have to license and pay royalities to TiVo to use.


My point simply was they have the rights to the hardware and who is able to make hadware/software to work with their system so there will be no war. I know Tivo owns the rights to their software but the software isn't of much use without haware to run it on.
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Old 10-12-2005, 10:33 AM   #131 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steveknj
Yes, I realize they are SD, so I should have said the HD version of the R15 (probably a different model number). To me, that is a pretty expensive price to pay for an HD DVR. First of all, if I'm not mistaken, D* charges you for HD programming, and DVR fees, so that is what, an additional $20 a month or so? Then you have to lay out about $299 for the DVR, or has the price dropped? Now, the cable companies charge MUCH less for HD. There are two factors right now why I haven't switched back to cable. One is the monitory investment I have made in D* equipment, and the other is Tivo, which so far, is head and shoulders better than what my cable co offers (Cablevision). An inexpensive DVR with all the features of Tivo that handles HD, would probably keep me with D* for life. Inexpensive to me is ideally under $50 for the equipment and an equivilant to cable, fee for HD programming.


HD will eventually become the norm, so there won't be any fees to watch it. D* are merely fleecing the early adopters at this time. Later, when everyone is watching HD, there will be no need to charge an extra fee for it. I'm sure prices will go up in that timespan, but it certainly will cease to be a seperate fee.

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Old 10-12-2005, 10:54 AM   #132 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steveknj
Yes, I realize they are SD, so I should have said the HD version of the R15 (probably a different model number). To me, that is a pretty expensive price to pay for an HD DVR. First of all, if I'm not mistaken, D* charges you for HD programming, and DVR fees, so that is what, an additional $20 a month or so? Then you have to lay out about $299 for the DVR, or has the price dropped? Now, the cable companies charge MUCH less for HD. There are two factors right now why I haven't switched back to cable. One is the monitory investment I have made in D* equipment, and the other is Tivo, which so far, is head and shoulders better than what my cable co offers (Cablevision). An inexpensive DVR with all the features of Tivo that handles HD, would probably keep me with D* for life. Inexpensive to me is ideally under $50 for the equipment and an equivilant to cable, fee for HD programming.
That's what I thought, just wasn't sure.

Regarding paying for HD, it's not required to receive HD programming if it comes in other packages. IOW, if you get locals from DirecTV, and they're available in your area (which they likely are in NJ), you'll get HD locals from DirecTV without buying the HD package. Depending where you are in NJ, you may be able to get the locals OTA, too. HBO HD and SHO HD comes with the HBO and Showtime packages. Again, you don't have to pay for the HD package to get those. The HD package gives you ESPN-HD and ESPN2-HD, Discovery HD, UHD, HD Net, and a couple of others, I think. It's optional, though, you're not required to purchase it.

The only extra fee you'll pay for the HR10-250 is the standard $4.99 mirroring charge, unless this is the first DVR on your account. DirecTV charges $5.99 now for DVR service regardless the number of DVRs on your account.

There are rumors that the new HD DVR due next year will be available on a leasing plan, similar to cable. This will allow many to have HD DVRs without the large initial expense.

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Old 10-12-2005, 12:23 PM   #133 (Print)
Steveknj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin L
That's what I thought, just wasn't sure.

Regarding paying for HD, it's not required to receive HD programming if it comes in other packages. IOW, if you get locals from DirecTV, and they're available in your area (which they likely are in NJ), you'll get HD locals from DirecTV without buying the HD package. Depending where you are in NJ, you may be able to get the locals OTA, too. HBO HD and SHO HD comes with the HBO and Showtime packages. Again, you don't have to pay for the HD package to get those. The HD package gives you ESPN-HD and ESPN2-HD, Discovery HD, UHD, HD Net, and a couple of others, I think. It's optional, though, you're not required to purchase it.

The only extra fee you'll pay for the HR10-250 is the standard $4.99 mirroring charge, unless this is the first DVR on your account. DirecTV charges $5.99 now for DVR service regardless the number of DVRs on your account.

There are rumors that the new HD DVR due next year will be available on a leasing plan, similar to cable. This will allow many to have HD DVRs without the large initial expense.


Thanks for the info, that's good to know. How much is the HD package you describe. Being a sports nut, I'm sure I would wind up wanting ESPN-HD. Does D* carry HD broadcasts on RSNs? I know MSG broadcasts some of their live sporting events on HD. How about on their sports packages? I am pretty sure I heard the NFL Sunday Pass has HD (but I'm not interested in that one).

So basically to recap, for HD I would pay (above what I have now with my DVR package):
-Whatever the going rate is to purchase the HD-DVR box
-No additional mirroring fee above what I am paying now for my two DVRs
-No fee for OTA or Premium HD channels (ABC, CBS, etc, and HBO, etc.)
-Additional fee for HD specialized channels.

Just trying to get my ducks in a row before I take the plunge

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Old 10-12-2005, 12:42 PM   #134 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steveknj
Thanks for the info, that's good to know. How much is the HD package you describe. Being a sports nut, I'm sure I would wind up wanting ESPN-HD. Does D* carry HD broadcasts on RSNs? I know MSG broadcasts some of their live sporting events on HD. How about on their sports packages? I am pretty sure I heard the NFL Sunday Pass has HD (but I'm not interested in that one).

So basically to recap, for HD I would pay (above what I have now with my DVR package):
-Whatever the going rate is to purchase the HD-DVR box
-No additional mirroring fee above what I am paying now for my two DVRs
-No fee for OTA or Premium HD channels (ABC, CBS, etc, and HBO, etc.)
-Additional fee for HD specialized channels.

Just trying to get my ducks in a row before I take the plunge
I'm not sure about all the RSNs. YES broadcasts some of the Yankee games in HD. Your best bet is to check out DirecTV's website. TheHD package is $10.99/month.

Regarding your list:
- Correct
- Correct. You will have the additional $4.99/mo for having another box.
- Correct. OTA comes from the networks and is not from DirecTV, so no charge. It is incorporated into the DirecTV guide, so you can set up SPs for OTA broadcasts. If you get the NY national feed, the HD locals are included. Providing you already get HBO and/or Showtime, you get the HD counterpart at no add'l charge.
- Correct

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Old 10-12-2005, 10:30 PM   #135 (Print)
tbeckner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanyon71
My point simply was they have the rights to the hardware and who is able to make hadware/software to work with their system so there will be no war. I know Tivo owns the rights to their software but the software isn't of much use without haware to run it on.
I guess what I was pointing out is that having the rights to the hardware is almost useless in todays world. Hardware is just a throw away item. That is why you can buy a DELL computer with monitor, keyboard, and mouse for $299, with XP Home. But if you want XP Pro and the FULL version of Office 2003, without buying it preinstalled (OEM), that same computer with that software will cost you three times as much. Software runs the world, hardware (especially at the lower end of electronics, like the DVR) is really NO LONGER as important, and as the hardware get cheaper and cheaper and produced in larger numbers, the software becomes even more important. That could be likely reason why the SKY DVR/DTV DVR could end up being be a flop. The SKY DVR has not had the long term development that the TiVo software has had. But long term also means that TiVo is likely looking at a new interface. The real problem for both DTV and TiVo is IPTV, and I do not mean just Microsoft. The concept of IPTV and Fiber to the House will likely replace both DTV, Cable, DSL, and almost everything we think of when it comes to TV/Video. Of course the key to IPTV is Fiber and investment, so it will not come easy.

If I was DTV, EchoStar, a cable company, or a phone company, I would be afraid of Fiber, IPTV, and VOIP, and almost anything IP related.

Just think, you can call anyone in the world and have large screen HD+ video and full sprectrum audio, and HD+ video and full sprectrum audio access to millions of movies, series, news archives, documentaries, etc, reaching all the way back to the beginning of movies and TV, at a moments notices, available 24x7x365, for a fraction of the cost to access that information today.

In fact IPTV could actually kill all of the networks including the cable networks as broadcasters and turn all of them into content suppliers. In fact, I actually can see that happening.

This type of content delivery will likely turn that whole world, the world we have now, and the world a lot of us have had all of our lifes, completely upside down. And I have to agree with everyone, it will not happen tomorrow. It will take a decade or two for the transition to be complete, but unless physics can be over come, DTV and EchoStar could be ghosts, or at the very least a dying breed in less time that I have already had DTV.

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Old 10-12-2005, 10:34 PM   #136 (Print)
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Not that it is a direct corralation... I just started a project for our client.

It is going to be 1 to 1.5 million for the hardware..... 4-5 million for the licenses for the OS, Citrix, and other software to run on this hardware.

Hardware is what it runs on... but it is the Software that makes all the difference...

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Old 10-12-2005, 10:41 PM   #137 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin L

I'm not predicting when it will happen, just that it's likely it will. And DirecTV has already changed the behavior or closed unsupported features with updates. Regarding the mountainous amount of calls, they could simply add a recording or option to the phone menu that states "If you are calling about the loss of 30-second skip, be advised that this unsupported feature no longer works and will not be restored."


That's enough to make me want to go visit dishnetwork.com . As one of those who can't do without 30-second skip, disabling that feature is a call for an immediate account shutdown. And even at a $250 termination fee, I'm sure there's a Dish dealer out there somewhere who would cut me a deal to make that a lot less painful.

But then, we're talking about not having skip on the new boxes, as well as having it disabled on the current ones. If that feature is going away...so am I. Not a rant, just a note for anyone for D* who might be reading this...and care.
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Old 10-12-2005, 11:18 PM   #138 (Print)
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Nobody cares.
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Old 10-13-2005, 01:17 AM   #139 (Print)
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Wink Future of Comercials??

Quote:
Originally Posted by dshinnick
Now, if anyone came up with a *true* commercial skip...wow. Press a button, skip to the beginning of the show's return. Now that'd be "hot"....
That will probably never happen - but something better will eventually be coming along.

When the technology allows true interactive television, then people wouldn't get slammed with hundreds of commercials (like someone shooting a 1000 shot shotgun into a cloud of flies and hoping to hit a particular one). Instead, user will have "profiles" targeting there interest.

Remember commercials is all about getting the message to a viewer who will respond to their message. So the shotgun approach, of sending you a thoundsand commercials in hopes that you might respond to 1 or 2, would be replace with a model where you are only sent a handful of commercials, some of the might be more like info-mercials, and chances are you will want to watch them because it is targeting your interest ( i.e. you would be willing to watch the commercial on Ford's new Hybrid car because you want to buy one and haven;t decided which one to get yet.)
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Old 10-13-2005, 05:14 AM   #140 (Print)
cmtar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austinsho
That's enough to make me want to go visit dishnetwork.com . As one of those who can't do without 30-second skip, disabling that feature is a call for an immediate account shutdown. And even at a $250 termination fee, I'm sure there's a Dish dealer out there somewhere who would cut me a deal to make that a lot less painful.

But then, we're talking about not having skip on the new boxes, as well as having it disabled on the current ones. If that feature is going away...so am I. Not a rant, just a note for anyone for D* who might be reading this...and care.


The 30 second skip was a back door code, not an advertised feature. If not having that will make you leave D* that thats pretty sad and I would say go then. D* could drop the DVR all together and I would stay. Im here for the D* service not the DVR. I just need something to record shows then i dont have time to watch them. I can go back to the vcr if I have to.
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Old 10-13-2005, 06:25 AM   #141 (Print)
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I just got a TiVo with a DVR last night and was looking for the 30 second skip. There is not a button on the remote for this. Was there a button on the older sets....or was it a function that you had to program? I'm really confused.
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Old 10-13-2005, 06:39 AM   #142 (Print)
cmtar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRRKAR
I just got a TiVo with a DVR last night and was looking for the 30 second skip. There is not a button on the remote for this. Was there a button on the older sets....or was it a function that you had to program? I'm really confused.


It is a backdoor code. When playiogn a recorded show press select-play-select 3-0-select and you shouild hear 3 dings if you did it right. Sometimes it takes a few tries.
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Old 10-13-2005, 08:25 AM   #143 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmtar
The 30 second skip was a back door code, not an advertised feature. If not having that will make you leave D* that thats pretty sad and I would say go then. D* could drop the DVR all together and I would stay. Im here for the D* service not the DVR. I just need something to record shows then i dont have time to watch them. I can go back to the vcr if I have to.

So then if that's the case why pay Directv 4.99 a month for a DVR if you can just use a VCR to record shows. Using a VCR is NOT AN OPTION to most DVR users as their main source for recording shows.
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Old 10-13-2005, 08:29 AM   #144 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austinsho
That's enough to make me want to go visit dishnetwork.com . As one of those who can't do without 30-second skip, disabling that feature is a call for an immediate account shutdown. And even at a $250 termination fee, I'm sure there's a Dish dealer out there somewhere who would cut me a deal to make that a lot less painful.

But then, we're talking about not having skip on the new boxes, as well as having it disabled on the current ones. If that feature is going away...so am I. Not a rant, just a note for anyone for D* who might be reading this...and care.
Wow. It would take more than dropping 30-second skip to make me go back to Dish. Have you ever had Dish? I have, and DirecTV is far better. But, that's why they make 31 flavors of ice cream - everybody has a favorite!

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Old 10-13-2005, 08:31 AM   #145 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ufo4sale
So then if that's the case why pay Directv 4.99 a month for a DVR if you can just use a VCR to record shows. Using a VCR is NOT AN OPTION to most DVR users as their main source for recording shows.
Because a DVR is worth the $4.99, and is preferable to a VCR. What cmtar's saying is DirecTV service is more important to him than having a DVR. It's not for me, but that doesn't make it wrong for him.

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Old 10-13-2005, 08:39 AM   #146 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmtar
It is a backdoor code. When playiogn a recorded show press select-play-select 3-0-select and you shouild hear 3 dings if you did it right. Sometimes it takes a few tries.

you will only hear the 3 dings if you don't have sound effects turned off.
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Old 10-13-2005, 08:43 AM   #147 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbeckner
I guess what I was pointing out is that having the rights to the hardware is almost useless in todays world. Hardware is just a throw away item. That is why you can buy a DELL computer with monitor, keyboard, and mouse for $299, with XP Home. But if you want XP Pro and the FULL version of Office 2003, without buying it preinstalled (OEM), that same computer with that software will cost you three times as much. Software runs the world, hardware (especially at the lower end of electronics, like the DVR) is really NO LONGER as important, and as the hardware get cheaper and cheaper and produced in larger numbers, the software becomes even more important. That could be likely reason why the SKY DVR/DTV DVR could end up being be a flop. The SKY DVR has not had the long term development that the TiVo software has had. But long term also means that TiVo is likely looking at a new interface. The real problem for both DTV and TiVo is IPTV, and I do not mean just Microsoft. The concept of IPTV and Fiber to the House will likely replace both DTV, Cable, DSL, and almost everything we think of when it comes to TV/Video. Of course the key to IPTV is Fiber and investment, so it will not come easy.

If I was DTV, EchoStar, a cable company, or a phone company, I would be afraid of Fiber, IPTV, and VOIP, and almost anything IP related.

Just think, you can call anyone in the world and have large screen HD+ video and full sprectrum audio, and HD+ video and full sprectrum audio access to millions of movies, series, news archives, documentaries, etc, reaching all the way back to the beginning of movies and TV, at a moments notices, available 24x7x365, for a fraction of the cost to access that information today.

In fact IPTV could actually kill all of the networks including the cable networks as broadcasters and turn all of them into content suppliers. In fact, I actually can see that happening.

This type of content delivery will likely turn that whole world, the world we have now, and the world a lot of us have had all of our lifes, completely upside down. And I have to agree with everyone, it will not happen tomorrow. It will take a decade or two for the transition to be complete, but unless physics can be over come, DTV and EchoStar could be ghosts, or at the very least a dying breed in less time that I have already had DTV.


Well I disagree, having the rights to the hardware in this instance is of utmost importance, this stops Tivo from being able to make a receiver/dvr for D* without paying D* money for the rights to do so.

I completely agree with you on the Fiber though, I am waiting very anxiously for them to finish running it to my neighborhood. I see them working down the street all the time. I had one of my friends get it and she loves it.
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Old 10-13-2005, 09:04 AM   #148 (Print)
JWThiers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanyon71
Well I disagree, having the rights to the hardware in this instance is of utmost importance, this stops Tivo from being able to make a receiver/dvr for D* without paying D* money for the rights to do so.

I didn't realize that Tivo had the rights to computers running linux and mpeg encoder/decoders chips. Although they have some hardware copyrights (configuring the specific components just so) the bulk of their copyrights are for software (Control and interface to use hardware) not hardware. Anyone can throw together a box that has hardware to do this, it is the software that matters most that is what makes the difference between Replay TV, Windows Media Center PC's, etc.

Need proof that hardware doesn't matter, apple recently announce that they were going to moving the computers to intel chips from powerPC chips(I think powerpc I'm a windows geek) do you think that mac look and feel or software behavior will change because of the hardware change, I think not. Why? Because the all that they have to do to make the change is basically recompile the source code to the intel chipset.
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Old 10-13-2005, 09:10 AM   #149 (Print)
Kevin L
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWThiers
you will only hear the 3 dings if you don't have sound effects turned off.
Good point. When I set up a new TiVo, there are two things I do immediately - turn off suggestions and turn off the sound effects.

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Old 10-13-2005, 09:59 AM   #150 (Print)
cmtar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ufo4sale
So then if that's the case why pay Directv 4.99 a month for a DVR if you can just use a VCR to record shows. Using a VCR is NOT AN OPTION to most DVR users as their main source for recording shows.


Like Kevin said having Directv is more important to me than a DVR. But not saying I dont want one I would be p*ssed if D* dropped them all together. But unlike alot others I watch live tv 99% of the time, the DVR for me is just there to record a show if im not able to watch it, like a vcr. After I watch the show I delete it in most cases. I have 2 things on my DVR right now that have not been deleted. And the dvr is easier and better than a vcr so thats why I pay. Im probably the only one who uses the DVR just as a back up if I cant watch it. I watch live tv, I dont save shows most of the time, transfer to the pc, network,hack,HMO I dont need any of it. I only have D* in one room and a DVR in one room. I do have certain shows I watch on a daily basis but TV is not priority to me. Missing an episode or two will not kill me.
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