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Old 10-18-2005, 02:29 PM   #1 (Print)
thefutoncritic
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"Commander-In-Chief"/"Boston Legal" to Now Run 61/59 Minutes

ABC's scheduling updates today note the change for each:

(COMMANDER IN CHIEF) – Please note new run time, 9:00-10:01 p.m., ET (formerly it was 9:00-10:00 p.m.)

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/cgi/l...d=20051018abc01

(BOSTON LEGAL) – Please note new run time, 10:01-11:00 p.m., ET (formerly it was 10:00-11:00 p.m.)

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/cgi/l...d=20051018abc02
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Old 10-18-2005, 02:45 PM   #2 (Print)
Rob Helmerichs
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Well, it's stupid, but it doesn't affect me because I record both shows, and if I drop one it will be CiC.

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Old 10-18-2005, 10:26 PM   #3 (Print)
ckelly5
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gah. too little too late. I missed my weekly Boston Legal fix!

They need to put this show on iTunes too

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Last edited by ckelly5 : 10-18-2005 at 10:38 PM.
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Old 10-19-2005, 09:37 AM   #4 (Print)
jon777
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My R10 didn't record BL because "No Longer in the Guide" -- I guess it didn't fully process the update. Luckily the HD TiVo did get it.

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Old 10-19-2005, 10:06 AM   #5 (Print)
Trackellalouise
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We missed the last minute of CIC. Anyone know what happened after Templeton got the book?

Danged networks!
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Old 10-19-2005, 10:47 AM   #6 (Print)
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For me, CiC is lower-priority than the following hour's SP; ABC will shoot itself in the foot with this one.

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Old 10-19-2005, 08:40 PM   #7 (Print)
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DAMNIT! I missed the last minute or two as well and this screws up my SP for Nip/Tuck. Luckily it shows multiple times, but not so eloquent to record now. ABC is really pissing me off.
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Old 10-20-2005, 08:39 AM   #8 (Print)
TiVoEvan74
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Must be only in certain areas... our TiVo recorded both and both were listed as 1 hour, no funny business with the start/stop times.
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Old 10-20-2005, 08:52 PM   #9 (Print)
matwell
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Angry Re: "Commander-In-Chief"/"Boston Legal" to Now Run 61/59 Minutes

Hello,

New to this board, but looooooong time TiVo user.

This new "policy" by ABC of making certain shows 61 minutes long is clearly aimed at TiVo users. I have written ABC, called TiVo and written Zap2It (Tribune Media Services, they create the guide data for TiVo) regarding this issue.

My suggestion for Zap2It was to ignore the 1:01 length and list the show as 1:00 in the guide data. Then, a user could easily extend it by 1 minute. If you record anything on NBC Thursdays, you're already used to doing this! But we can't make a show record 1:00 if the guide data says 1:01. There is no "1 minute shorter" option in Recording Options.

So, either TiVo needs to add a "1 minute shorter" option, or Zap2It needs to fix the guide data. Or maybe hell could freeze over and ABC will play nice.


My short term solution for this:
I record "Commander In Chief" at 9pm (ABC) and "Law & Order: SVU" at 10pm (NBC). So, there's nothing I can do about Commander In Chief, but I make a Manual repeating recording starting at 10:05pm for "Law & Order". THEN, you edit the Season Pass for the Manual recording and make it start 4 minutes earlier. Voila! It starts recording at 10:01pm. At least that's one way of temporarily fixing this.

Hope this helps. I suggest we all gripe to ABC/TiVo/Zap2It (Tribune Media Services) about this!

Good luck!

Last edited by matwell : 10-20-2005 at 09:26 PM. Reason: Messed up Title!
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Old 10-20-2005, 09:13 PM   #10 (Print)
Rob Helmerichs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matwell
This new "policy" by ABC of making certain shows 61 minutes long is clearly aimed at TiVo users.

No, it's not. Tivo users are a blip on the screen to the networks. It's aimed at increasing advertising revenue by shifting a minute of ads from a lower-ranked show to a higher-ranked show.

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Old 10-20-2005, 11:56 PM   #11 (Print)
robertlipe
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First time caller, but long time lurker.

I'd like the record to show that this officially stinks. Our Direct TiVo didn't record BL - even though it was the only thing scheduled to record withing hours of this - becuase the stupid provider moved it one minute in what appears to be merely a publicity stunt to annoy tivo users.

This isn't the first time that Tivo has decided to not record something because something has moved one minute (yes, as a programmer myself, I understand the logic that technically the program was cancelled and then rescheduled one minute later therefore it was "obviously" a repeat of an earlier program, but as a consumer, Tivo failed - it did not record the show I asked it to record) and it bugs the dickens out of me.

I would *much* rather it notify me of a conflict or better yet, speculatively record something that may be a repeat than to throw a show set for a eason pass in the garbage because there's one minute in limbo.

I have a two tuner tivo with about 70 hours of unused capacity. I missed a show because someone played a shell game on a season pass with one minute?!?! What's wrong with this picture?
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Old 10-26-2005, 01:33 PM   #12 (Print)
skippyjet
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Boston Legal demonstrates a TiVo bug.

I agree. This is a TiVo software bug.

Same thing happened to me. Two TiVos, one is HD. Neither got BL, though both were supposed to. One of them (SDTV) had no other recordings schduled anywhere near that time, but the other did record CiC, as scheduled.

I noticed that a bit more than an hour before the start of BL, one of the TiVos said it was recording BL at that time. Strange, since the guide did not show BL airing until 10:01PM. The next day, neither TiVo had BL on it.

This is the third time this has happened, and I'm pissed - at TiVo! Get it together, TiVo.
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Old 10-27-2005, 04:05 PM   #13 (Print)
LynnL999
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Hopefully the larger issue will be solved by the "clipping protection" option on the 7.2.1 software rolling out right now. If you turn this option on, you will be able to record shows with overlaps of 5 minutes or less. Whichever is lower in your season pass list will be "clipped."
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Old 10-27-2005, 06:00 PM   #14 (Print)
matwell
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Angry "Commander-In-Chief"/"Boston Legal" to Now Run 61/59 Minutes

While all of you posting here have some very valid points regarding TiVo's functionality, I still think you are missing the bigger picture.

It is one thing if you like watching "Commander in Chief" *AND* "Boston Legal". There are various ways of solving this with TiVo, since it is staying on the same channel / network.

It is an entirely different thing if you want to record something else *after* "Commander in Chief" (like "Law & Order: SVU") on a competing network!

Whether it's "aimed at increasing advertising revenue" like Rob says or not, ABC's decision to run one show for 61 minutes *clearly* fouls up the programming of *any* DVR, not just TiVo. With the recent "death of the VCR" announced by TiVo, I think this is a bigger issue.

I think this should be protested by the viewers. Petitions should be signed. Letters to the editors of "Entertainment Weekly", "NY Times", "L.A. Times", "TV Guide". Put the pressure on and get the message out there. Because if you allow ABC to get away with this, there will be more to come from them and other networks.

Remember, TiVo is supposed to make TV work the way we want to. ABC is trying to undermine that philosophy.
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Old 10-27-2005, 07:52 PM   #15 (Print)
Rob Helmerichs
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Personally, I think this kind of garbage will only end when DVR users have enough numbers to make an impact, at which point our anger will register on the networks. Right now, only a very small percentage of viewers are affected by this, and the networks make a lot of money in increased ad revenue.

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Old 10-28-2005, 08:58 AM   #16 (Print)
TiVoEvan74
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Is there an explanation why we haven't run into problems with this with our TiVos??

They gladly record CiC for 1:01 and BL for :59. They do it without any problem, any intervention on my part. (Both shows were set up for the 1 hour time slots.) In the to-do list, it shows that the recording of the shows were cancelled, but they are recorded and work fine.

It's worked fine with both a Toshiba RS-TX60 and a Toshiba SD-H400.

So, why is it working on our TiVos and not on other people's?
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Old 10-28-2005, 09:11 AM   #17 (Print)
Rob Helmerichs
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The problem is when a 8:00-9:01 show conflicts with a 9:00-10:00 show.

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Old 10-28-2005, 10:12 AM   #18 (Print)
TiVoEvan74
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Yep, I got that. Unless you're saying the problem *only* arises when switching TO a different channel, but some posters early in the thread said they lost BL entirely or the ending of CC.

I have an 8-9 and a 9-10 show (CC and BL) and there's been no problem with the 9:01 ending time for CC. Is that because it's on the same channel?
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Old 10-28-2005, 12:46 PM   #19 (Print)
lew
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This "problem" is not new. NBC shows like ER having been doing this for years.

There aren't enough tivo users for ABC to notice. As was already posted it allows an extra ad in the higher rated show.

I think your Zap2It (Tribune Media) suggestion is horrible. You are asking them to deliberately publish incorrect data. The default recording option shouldn't be to truncate the last minute of a show. Some of us have dual tuner DTivos or are recording both shows. Your suggestion would cause us to miss a minute of the show for no reason.

Tivo should have an option for "negative padding". Even better they could give us the option to truncate the beginning or ending of the show in the event of a conflict.


Quote:
Originally Posted by matwell
Hello,

New to this board, but looooooong time TiVo user.

This new "policy" by ABC of making certain shows 61 minutes long is clearly aimed at TiVo users. I have written ABC, called TiVo and written Zap2It (Tribune Media Services, they create the guide data for TiVo) regarding this issue.

My suggestion for Zap2It was to ignore the 1:01 length and list the show as 1:00 in the guide data. Then, a user could easily extend it by 1 minute. If you record anything on NBC Thursdays, you're already used to doing this! But we can't make a show record 1:00 if the guide data says 1:01. There is no "1 minute shorter" option in Recording Options.

So, either TiVo needs to add a "1 minute shorter" option, or Zap2It needs to fix the guide data. Or maybe hell could freeze over and ABC will play nice.


My short term solution for this:
I record "Commander In Chief" at 9pm (ABC) and "Law & Order: SVU" at 10pm (NBC). So, there's nothing I can do about Commander In Chief, but I make a Manual repeating recording starting at 10:05pm for "Law & Order". THEN, you edit the Season Pass for the Manual recording and make it start 4 minutes earlier. Voila! It starts recording at 10:01pm. At least that's one way of temporarily fixing this.

Hope this helps. I suggest we all gripe to ABC/TiVo/Zap2It (Tribune Media Services) about this!

Good luck!
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Old 10-28-2005, 08:33 PM   #20 (Print)
matwell
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Arrow "Commander-In-Chief"/"Boston Legal" to Now Run 61/59 Minutes

You make a good point, and I welcome other opinions on this. I'm just trying to encourage dialogue about this. Hopefully we can all discover the best way to rectify the situation.

Having said that...

NBC regularly ran "Friends" and other shows longer than 30 minutes, dipping into the advertising time between shows, even though they were listed in the guide data as :30. For regular viewers of any show, you learn the broadcast habits and adjust your Season Passes accordingly.

What ABC is doing is different. The show is *listed* as 1:01, which is causing the problem. If they choose to run the show longer (as NBC did with "Friends"), that's fine, but *don't list the guide data as 1:01*! Let the viewer learn the hard way, like we've always done.

Maybe you are right though. TiVo should add a negative padding option to resolve this. Otherwise, TiVo is letting ABC use their system against them.

(Now, maybe I should run out and get one of those two-tuner TiVo's...)
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Old 10-28-2005, 11:35 PM   #21 (Print)
poee
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Everyone knows that TiVo's software makes it easy to add some padding to the beginning and/or end of a SP recording. But there is no way to subtract even a single minute, only add. Why is this? I cannot imagine why it would be more difficult for TiVo programmers to provide "negative padding" when setting up a SP than it is to give us positive padding, or am I missing something?
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Old 10-30-2005, 07:33 AM   #22 (Print)
lew
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You're mistaken. ER has shown as 61 minutes for years. There is a differrence between a show going the full hour with no commercials betwen two shows and actually extending the show by a minute.

What ABC is doing isn't different. My guess is you didn't have a conflict so the problem is new to you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by matwell
Having said that...

NBC regularly ran "Friends" and other shows longer than 30 minutes, dipping into the advertising time between shows, even though they were listed in the guide data as :30. For regular viewers of any show, you learn the broadcast habits and adjust your Season Passes accordingly.

What ABC is doing is different. The show is *listed* as 1:01, which is causing the problem. If they choose to run the show longer (as NBC did with "Friends"), that's fine, but *don't list the guide data as 1:01*! Let the viewer learn the hard way, like we've always done.

Maybe you are right though. TiVo should add a negative padding option to resolve this. Otherwise, TiVo is letting ABC use their system against them.

(Now, maybe I should run out and get one of those two-tuner TiVo's...)
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Old 10-31-2005, 02:09 PM   #23 (Print)
robertlipe
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Conspiracy theories are fun and there is no doubt the networks are being annoying (and will surely continue to grow more so), but what's being described above doesn't matched my observed failure.

Mine is a two tuner DTivo with nothing recording at the same time or in the slots before or after BL When we went into recording history after noticing it didn't record (and why the heck doesn't is send mail in that case anyway?) we found the message to the effect that 'this show didn't record becuase it had aired in the previous 28 days'. So the show was cancelled and then recreated one minute later with the same title. Tivo thought it was a rerun (which was wrong - it was scheduled to record, but didn't) and then saw the "new" show as a dupe and tossed it.

A) When Tivo throws a season pass on the floor, it really should generate an event to the human for possible intervention. I'm not sure it would have helped in this specific case, but there have been other cases where I could have moved things around for a satisfactory result.
B) It should be smarter about repeats - this was *not* a repeat as it never recorded the original.
C) This shouldn't be a cancel/recreate operation at all, but rather an adjustment.
D) Even the case exemplified by single tuner with shows on two different channels overlapping by a single minute, deciding to simply record of the 'victim' show is underachieving.

Tivo had the opportunity to record it. Tivo failed in this case.
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Old 10-31-2005, 03:01 PM   #24 (Print)
TiVoEvan74
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So there's a definite problem in the TiVo programming, right? It's not just about switching channels to another show which has been bumped because CC went over by a minute.

On ours, we're getting both CC and BL with the final minute of CC on the first minute of BL... not perfect, but works for us!
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Old 10-31-2005, 05:17 PM   #25 (Print)
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I don't consider my scepter of judgement on this topic to be definitive, but I do think it's a problem in the Tivo code. If I'd gotten 59 minutes of BL, I wouldn't have been nearly so annoyed. :-) Subsequent episodes all recored fine. It was just the one at the start of the month when they moved it that hosed us.
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Old 10-31-2005, 08:11 PM   #26 (Print)
lew
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertlipe
I don't consider my scepter of judgement on this topic to be definitive, but I do think it's a problem in the Tivo code. If I'd gotten 59 minutes of BL, I wouldn't have been nearly so annoyed. :-) Subsequent episodes all recored fine. It was just the one at the start of the month when they moved it that hosed us.


My unit recorded both shows fine.
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Old 11-01-2005, 07:19 AM   #27 (Print)
TiVoEvan74
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Are you going to be able to catch a re-run of it?
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Old 11-03-2005, 05:58 AM   #28 (Print)
matwell
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"Commander-In-Chief"/"Boston Legal" to Now Run 61/59 Minutes

You are absolutely right. I stand corrected. I've never been a fan of "ER" so I never ran into this situation until now. Thanks for your input!


Quote:
Originally Posted by lew

You're mistaken. ER has shown as 61 minutes for years. There is a differrence between a show going the full hour with no commercials betwen two shows and actually extending the show by a minute.

What ABC is doing isn't different. My guess is you didn't have a conflict so the problem is new to you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by matwell
Having said that...

NBC regularly ran "Friends" and other shows longer than 30 minutes, dipping into the advertising time between shows, even though they were listed in the guide data as :30. For regular viewers of any show, you learn the broadcast habits and adjust your Season Passes accordingly.

What ABC is doing is different. The show is *listed* as 1:01, which is causing the problem. If they choose to run the show longer (as NBC did with "Friends"), that's fine, but *don't list the guide data as 1:01*! Let the viewer learn the hard way, like we've always done.

Maybe you are right though. TiVo should add a negative padding option to resolve this. Otherwise, TiVo is letting ABC use their system against them.

(Now, maybe I should run out and get one of those two-tuner TiVo's...)
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Old 11-05-2005, 10:19 PM   #29 (Print)
tivarino
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There is a new feature about to come out in an update that will take care of this problem. It will allow shows that conflict for a minute or two both be recorded and the one with the higher priority (read higher on the list) to take the extra time.

It's in the newsletter
New TiVo® service feature!
Get 'em both with Overlap Protection™: In the past, if two of your favorite shows overlapped by a minute or two, you could only record one or the other. Now, with Overlap Protection™, your TiVo® box can record both shows back-to-back by clipping just enough from the end of the first show or the beginning of the second show, based on which has the higher Season Pass priority in Season Pass Manager. Wondering how to manage your Season Pass Manager? Read the next TiVo Tip.

Last edited by tivarino : 11-05-2005 at 10:24 PM. Reason: Additional Info
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Old 11-15-2005, 08:12 PM   #30 (Print)
Kardinal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tivarino
There is a new feature about to come out in an update that will take care of this problem. It will allow shows that conflict for a minute or two both be recorded and the one with the higher priority (read higher on the list) to take the extra time.

It's in the newsletter
New TiVo® service feature!
Get 'em both with Overlap Protection™: In the past, if two of your favorite shows overlapped by a minute or two, you could only record one or the other. Now, with Overlap Protection™, your TiVo® box can record both shows back-to-back by clipping just enough from the end of the first show or the beginning of the second show, based on which has the higher Season Pass priority in Season Pass Manager. Wondering how to manage your Season Pass Manager? Read the next TiVo Tip.

Thankfully, this will not be downloaded to my beloved HDirecTiVo, becuse we're stuck on 6.1 (or is it 6.2...we don't even have folders), and have been abandoned apparently by both TiVo and DirecTV. Somebody up there loves me, but only a little bit.

Is there a way to influence Tribune to ignore these shenanigans? Whether it's motivated by the desire to screw other networks by preventing DVR users from recording other shows, or by manipulating advertising, either way, it seems that would solve the problem even for us who are stuck back in the stone age of TiVo software.
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