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Old 11-29-2005, 02:39 PM   #61 (Print)
Arcady
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I don't see any rumor about an Apple DVR anywhere. Whoever wrote the topic needs to read better. The rumor is about a Mac Mini ( a computer) that may include PVR software (and I assume hardware to get video into the Mac.) We're talking $500+ here.

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Old 11-29-2005, 02:45 PM   #62 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcady
I don't see any rumor about an Apple DVR anywhere. Whoever wrote the topic needs to read better. The rumor is about a Mac Mini ( a computer) that may include PVR software (and I assume hardware to get video into the Mac.) We're talking $500+ here.


It's been hours since we've had a "TiVo killer" thread, so the OP had to stretch a bit to fill this important gap
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Old 11-29-2005, 02:49 PM   #63 (Print)
jsmeeker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcady
I don't see any rumor about an Apple DVR anywhere. Whoever wrote the topic needs to read better. The rumor is about a Mac Mini ( a computer) that may include PVR software (and I assume hardware to get video into the Mac.) We're talking $500+ here.



it becomes a DVR in the same way a PC with Windows XP Media Center Edition can become a DVR. Don't get hung up on price and using that to determine if it's a DVR. recall what the original TiVos sold for.

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Old 11-29-2005, 02:52 PM   #64 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgh
It's been hours since we've had a "TiVo killer" thread, so the OP had to stretch a bit to fill this important gap


Actually it says that in the article he linked to. While I seriously doubt it will Kill Tivo it could still be pretty cool. I think the only ones who might kill Tivo in the long run would be Tivo themselves.
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Old 11-29-2005, 02:54 PM   #65 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmeeker
it becomes a DVR in the same way a PC with Windows XP Media Center Edition can become a DVR. Don't get hung up on price and using that to determine if it's a DVR. recall what the original TiVos sold for.



or that it is a PC. It is a Mac mini designed from the get go to be in the living room and running as a media device. I have no idea on system crashes with it and dealing with device drivers etc..

but I would bet if you follow the Apple formula of using Apple hardware/software without a lot of 3rd party dll hell that kills windows then it will be fairly stable.
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Old 11-29-2005, 02:55 PM   #66 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmeeker
it becomes a DVR in the same way a PC with Windows XP Media Center Edition can become a DVR. Don't get hung up on price and using that to determine if it's a DVR. recall what the original TiVos sold for.


Actually isn't the Intel partnership supposed to bring down the price of the apple products? It could end up being something cool or it could be a bust. If it works well and makes it easy to put programs on the ipod it will probably sell a ton though. I wonder what it's going to do about guide data, cable/sat box connections and so forth. I would guess it's going to be a broadband only device with no modem or place to call for it's guide data?
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Old 11-29-2005, 03:01 PM   #67 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanyon71
Actually isn't the Intel partnership supposed to bring down the price of the apple products? It could end up being something cool or it could be a bust. If it works well and makes it easy to put programs on the ipod it will probably sell a ton though. I wonder what it's going to do about guide data, cable/sat box connections and so forth. I would guess it's going to be a broadband only device with no modem or place to call for it's guide data?


well, that wasn't the primary intent of moving to Intel, but it could help ease the price gap somewhat. Not that it's a really huge one these days. But Apple won't ever be an "economy" brand.

you tell me. have you seen Front Row? You seem to be familair with iPods and iTunes. Do you expect Apple to do something rash and not follow the lines that haev already been laid down?

How much Apple hardware is in a Mac these days? very, very little. Virtually all components are "off the shelf" items. They just tightly control WHICH products they select.

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Old 11-29-2005, 03:03 PM   #68 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanyon71
Actually isn't the Intel partnership supposed to bring down the price of the apple products? It could end up being something cool or it could be a bust. If it works well and makes it easy to put programs on the ipod it will probably sell a ton though. I wonder what it's going to do about guide data, cable/sat box connections and so forth. I would guess it's going to be a broadband only device with no modem or place to call for it's guide data?


This place is starting to read like the forums at www.applenova.com or www.appleinsider.com !
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Old 11-29-2005, 03:17 PM   #69 (Print)
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Slightly off topic, but germane to what's being discussed:

Will there ever be a "Sat-Card" for use with Satellite TV systems, similar to the intent of Cable Cards?

With cable and sat companies pushing their own brands of DVR, Tivo and Apple will always be outsiders.

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Old 11-29-2005, 03:22 PM   #70 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmeeker
well, that wasn't the primary intent of moving to Intel, but it could help ease the price gap somewhat. Not that it's a really huge one these days. But Apple won't ever be an "economy" brand.

you tell me. have you seen Front Row? You seem to be familair with iPods and iTunes. Do you expect Apple to do something rash and not follow the lines that haev already been laid down?

How much Apple hardware is in a Mac these days? very, very little. Virtually all components are "off the shelf" items. They just tightly control WHICH products they select.


I honestly don't know what the real reason behind them moving really was. I know what they said but only half believe that. I have never owned a MAC computer though I have been tempted with the Mini and will probably bite if this new one comes out with the PVR features. Yes though I do use iTunes and have an iPod (which i'm going to replace after the holidays as it's only a 15gb and is starting to have drive issues). I have only seen Front Row in the video that they released after the announcement of the G5.
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Old 11-29-2005, 03:29 PM   #71 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanyon71
I honestly don't know what the real reason behind them moving really was. I know what they said but only half believe that. I have never owned a MAC computer though I have been tempted with the Mini and will probably bite if this new one comes out with the PVR features. Yes though I do use iTunes and have an iPod (which i'm going to replace after the holidays as it's only a 15gb and is starting to have drive issues). I have only seen Front Row in the video that they released after the announcement of the G5.


Why don't you believe them? IBM jsut can't advance the PowerPC line in a way that will meet Apple's needs. No G5 based notebook. Not all the G4 notebooks aren't as thin and as light as they could be. Run hot. etc.

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Old 11-29-2005, 03:51 PM   #72 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmeeker
Why don't you believe them? IBM jsut can't advance the PowerPC line in a way that will meet Apple's needs. No G5 based notebook. Not all the G4 notebooks aren't as thin and as light as they could be. Run hot. etc.



Because they released processors with most of the things Apple said they couldn't do shortly after they made the deal with Intel. Just seemed like a giant Ego war to me more then anything else.
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Old 11-29-2005, 03:51 PM   #73 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmeeker
How much Apple hardware is in a Mac these days? very, very little. Virtually all components are "off the shelf" items. They just tightly control WHICH products they select.
That is what I actually meant. Thanks for the clarification
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Old 11-29-2005, 04:01 PM   #74 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeoTiVo
That is what I actually meant. Thanks for the clarification


I think it was a good move on their part to start using off the shelf parts. My main reason for never owning one was the outrageous prices they charged. I could never see the benifit of paying so much more (at times over twice the cost of a comparable PC) so I never bit. With the Mini I have been very much been interested though and if the new PVR one is in the same price category as the one it replaces I may just bite.
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Old 11-29-2005, 04:01 PM   #75 (Print)
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I'm excited about the new Apple (Intel) Mac Mini with PVR software.

FrontRow looked cool when it came out, but it made no sense to run that on a large-footprint iMac. It was obviously only a matter of time before it was moved to the Mac Mini.

Now that they are specifically adding PVR software, it's real news.

Look, Apple is genius when it comes to the UI. Despite a higher initial price-tag, I think this is going to have lots of potential. I'll be keeping my eye on it.

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Old 11-29-2005, 04:20 PM   #76 (Print)
Arcady
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The thing is, I already have several Macs. And that includes my G5, which has an AV interface connected to a DirecTV satellite tuner. I can already schedule programs to record on my Mac using free software. What do I need Apple's software/hardware for? Hopefully they will come up with something to convince me, but until then, I'm pretty happy with my networked TiVos and Mac setup. A missing piece would be a native digital cable/satellite tuner so that there is no analog step, but I already get that with my DirecTiVos. But then I have to transfer to my computer to do anything with it. On the Mac I have the file right there, but it has travelled through an analog step and must be compressed again. So there are drawbacks both ways.

Just because I have been using Apple computers for almost 30 years, I'm not gonna jump on the Apple DVR bandwagon just because they are made by Apple. They have to make something better than TiVo to convince me.

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Old 11-29-2005, 05:15 PM   #77 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcady
Just because I have been using Apple computers for almost 30 years, I'm not gonna jump on the Apple DVR bandwagon just because they are made by Apple. They have to make something better than TiVo to convince me.


Agreed.

I would tend to bet that Apple will focus the product on its recent video download service. Perhaps allowing one to download hidef show like Lost, etc. This would benefit me since I have a hidef TV but cannot get hidef cable. Also, a one click iDVD integration would be attractive. I think their actual features will not focus on the Tivo type stuff like Wishlists etc. But who know? The mini would also have to ship with some sort of Firewire adapter to allow analog inputs. I doubt they'd build them in.
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Old 11-29-2005, 05:15 PM   #78 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeoTiVo
and yes add in the (not small) cost of another tuner AND mpeg encoder/decoder to a TiVo and you would have dual tuners working with DirectTV guide data.

Why the extra mpeg chip? DirecTV is a digital source, is it not? It seems to me that if your source is digital (satellite, digital cable) you need two tuners that directly record the digital stream to disk without decoding it. As you only have one TV out, you only need an mpeg decoder to display that on analog TV. Seems pretty cheap.
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Old 11-29-2005, 05:23 PM   #79 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tivogurl
Why the extra mpeg chip? DirecTV is a digital source, is it not?


Not after it comes out of the DirecTV receivers as described above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tivogurl
It seems to me that if your source is digital (satellite, digital cable)


We were talking analog cable but then got some DirecTV drift. Also "Digital cable" is often partly or even mostly analog.
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Old 11-29-2005, 05:26 PM   #80 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tivogurl
Why the extra mpeg chip? DirecTV is a digital source, is it not? It seems to me that if your source is digital (satellite, digital cable) you need two tuners that directly record the digital stream to disk without decoding it. As you only have one TV out, you only need an mpeg decoder to display that on analog TV. Seems pretty cheap.


the current series 2 tivo puts the show down onto the hard drive after conversion to mpeg2. every signal needs the mpeg chip

a directTV doers not, nor does the cable DVRS since those are known digital sources and can be set straight onto the hard drive.

but for all scenarios of a stand alone - analog has to be included.

PS - I do not know if digital is set straight down on a cable card TiVo or not, but it will deal with analog as well on dual tuners from what I read.
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Old 11-29-2005, 10:24 PM   #81 (Print)
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I wonder how many TiVo's with lifetime service you could buy for the price of one of these Apple DVRs?
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Old 11-29-2005, 10:35 PM   #82 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeS
I wonder how many TiVo's with lifetime service you could buy for the price of one of these Apple DVRs?


Umm... probably only one. Two at best.

Best case, with a $150 rebate included, you'll still pay ~ $350 for each TiVo with lifetime. Since the new Apple "DVR" (as we're now calling it) is based on a $500 Mac Mini, I can't imagine the price tag being too much higher than $700.

But it's not really a DVR. You'd be able to do much more with an OS X box than you can with a normal DVR. The direct price comparison isn't really fair; it's apples and oranges.

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Old 11-29-2005, 11:06 PM   #83 (Print)
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I just read this:
Apple prepping a DVR? Not so fast.

Some of it makes sense.
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Old 11-29-2005, 11:15 PM   #84 (Print)
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The heart of the argument lies here:

Quote:
More importantly, I think Apple's been gearing up for something slightly different, and more fitting for their business model: provide a way to stream video to your TV. Forget about the DVR stuff entirely. Apple would rather sell you a Mac mini of sorts that can leverage something similar to the AirPort Express to make it possible to stream iTunes purchases throughout the house.


He may be on to something there... time will tell.

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Old 11-30-2005, 12:16 AM   #85 (Print)
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Yeah, like Justin Thyme in the forum has pointed out before... why would Apple want to sell you something that lets you record video for free, when they would rather have you buy shows from iTunes Music Service?
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Old 11-30-2005, 01:38 AM   #86 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lajohn27
I looked at Front Row - and it is a joke. Will FR 2.0 be better.. of course.
J

I've played w/Front Row at work and on an iMac at an Apple Store. I wouldn't call it a joke, but the lack of PVR functionality is a glaring omission. It actually is pretty slick and the remote is really neat (being so small and looking like an iPod Shuffle + 1 button). I showed it to my dad and another friend who's a programmer and was a Computer Science major like myself and they were both reasonably impressed.

I'll admit it seems to have pretty limited options and I hit a few bugs where it seemed to hang (it seems if you go to Photos or Music and iTunes or iPhoto is trying to ask you questions, FR hangs).

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Old 11-30-2005, 07:10 AM   #87 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhaler
Just because you don't like my opinion that doesn't make me a troll.

Everything there was factually correct. If you disagree with my conclusion, that is your prerogative. But then skip the name calling and share why you have come to a different conclusion.

No need for name calling.

Don't worry bwhaler, there are folks here that actually understand you. Don't let the name callers bother you, nor let those that have a different opinion detract your own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMar
But people refutted or proved all your points to be incorrect.

Especially the non-HD and the whole ad's issues.
What proof? All I see are are folks skirting around the issues, and using hearsay as "proof". Don't give me the "TivoPony says..." crap. Until a dual tuner HD TiVo hits store shelves, it's hearsay, regardless of the source. Ads? They exist, what more "proof" do you need?

As far as Apple getting into he DVR mix, this is exciting news indeed. If the rumors hold true, that little company in Alviso, California has some serious thinking to do.

...

Last edited by Fixer : 11-30-2005 at 07:18 AM.
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Old 11-30-2005, 07:55 AM   #88 (Print)
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Actually I pointed out in this thread that the Apple secrets site linked by the OP even has a disclaimer on the DVR aspect of this rumored product. It is a smart continuation of the business model by Apple. Sell a bunch of iPods for music and now sell a bunch of minis for video. Why try and make a killer DVR in the first shot when they can innovate and wait for cable card as well before introducing the latest version late next year that is the killer DVR.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeoTiVo
it does look like the target is more of a way to hook the iPod up in the living room and get deeper into selling video from iTunes while also selling more Mac minis. The rumor site did not make DVR functionality seem like the main target for this version of mini. Now since it is a PC then you can control it in many ways and it should be just programming to hook them up to work together, however conflict resolution software is not just an easy procedural task to code up. I think that will come with time as well.

so if your goal is to get a lot of media to your living room/iPod in an easy manner and recording it is not your primary goal - this device looks ready and recording will come with time which makes sense as Cable Cards will come with time as well.

if your primary goal is to record cable or sat broadcasts in an easy manner and your secondary goal is to get that content available to more than just a TV then TiVo makes more sense for now.

My guess is the real batle will come next year with next version of Front Row and next series of TiVo.
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Old 11-30-2005, 08:00 AM   #89 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer
Don't worry bwhaler, there are folks here that actually understand you. Don't let the name callers bother you, nor let those that have a different opinion detract your own.

What proof? All I see are are folks skirting around the issues, and using hearsay as "proof". Don't give me the "TivoPony says..." crap. Until a dual tuner HD TiVo hits store shelves, it's hearsay, regardless of the source. Ads? They exist, what more "proof" do you need?

As far as Apple getting into he DVR mix, this is exciting news indeed. If the rumors hold true, that little company in Alviso, California has some serious thinking to do.

...

So can you point out all the times TiVoPony has been wrong about a product anouncement from TiVo. And what Bwhaler said about ads was they were all over the place and even came up over actual shows. That was indeed factually wrong and had nothing to do with the topic he started - he just likes to whine and if you want to join the chorus then have fun with that.

If you read the rumor site he linked you would also note that this first go around of this product is more aimed at iTunes than complete DVR functionality.
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Old 11-30-2005, 09:19 AM   #90 (Print)
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Originally Posted by rog
Umm... probably only one. Two at best.

Best case, with a $150 rebate included, you'll still pay ~ $350 for each TiVo with lifetime. Since the new Apple "DVR" (as we're now calling it) is based on a $500 Mac Mini, I can't imagine the price tag being too much higher than $700.

But it's not really a DVR. You'd be able to do much more with an OS X box than you can with a normal DVR. The direct price comparison isn't really fair; it's apples and oranges.


Yeah, you could do all the things HME promised and hasn't delivered.
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