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Old 12-01-2005, 12:06 PM   #151 (Print)
pmyers
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I too thought Jack kissed Kate back.

I'm also not so sure that Sawyer really did choke Kate. Maybe that was a "vision" on her part.
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Old 12-01-2005, 12:09 PM   #152 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jschuman
The horse looked gray to me, though.
The horse is gay?

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Old 12-01-2005, 12:09 PM   #153 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Man
Hefe, transcript of the conversation between Hurley and Jack about this, please!

OK, give me a few minutes...I only just finished reading this whole thread.


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Old 12-01-2005, 12:09 PM   #154 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmyers
I too thought Jack kissed Kate back.

I'm also not so sure that Sawyer really did choke Kate. Maybe that was a "vision" on her part.

Most of the time when someone is hallucinating (in this show), the person or thing they see disappears within a few seconds. I think Sawyer was delirious and it really happened.

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Old 12-01-2005, 12:11 PM   #155 (Print)
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Originally Posted by jeff125va
save:
v. saved, savˇing, saves
v. tr.

1.
a. To rescue from harm, danger, or loss.
b. To set free from the consequences of sin; redeem.

Since their plane crashed on what Sawyer had every reason to believe was an uninhabited island and he wakes up in a bed he would never have expected to exist there, I'd say the obvious meaning (a) makes perfect sense. I'd just interpret the pause as "oh yeah, he had no idea about this place." I can't see reading anything more into that.


Yeah, obviously (a) is what Sawyer meant and that's what Kate assumed he meant. If they are in Purgatory, obviously they don't know it and they wouldn't be referring to the (b) definition. I, like PJO1966, just thought it was an odd piece of dialog for the writers to have used, pointing to at least the possibility that it was written that way on purpose.

Again, not saying that I agree with the Purgatory angle. In fact, up until that scene last night, I have not even entertained the notion, choosing to believe what TPTB have stated in the past... that they are, in fact, not in Purgatory. But now I'm thinking, hey, if I had some show with this great mystery and someone had figured it out, I would probably say "nope, that's not it" too in order to try to keep the mystery alive.

Last edited by jking : 12-01-2005 at 12:18 PM.
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Old 12-01-2005, 12:12 PM   #156 (Print)
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Did anyone else notice what happened when Jack dropped the dirt on Shannon's wrap? The screen got wavy and it wasn't like a bad satellite signal. It was more like an intentional effect. Go back and watch it again. Especially if you have HD Tivo. I played it a few times and my friend definitely agreed something happened.
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Old 12-01-2005, 12:14 PM   #157 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bro1ncos
As someone posted earlier, we have aminimum of 3 cold blooded murders on the island (Kate, Sawyer, and Ana Lucia). Then we have another definate possibility in Jin, Eko, who killed 2 "others" and seemed like he had little problem doing it, and Sayid, who admittily did some bad thing while a member of the Republican Guard.


Well, from what we've been shown, Jin beat up that official in order to prevent his associate from killing him.
And it seems that Eko killed in self defense (and made herself serve penance).
It's pretty much a given that Sayid tortured people but the only killing we've seen him do was the other Iraqi guards to bust his sweetheart out of prison.

Kate, Sawyer, and Ana Lucia all committed premeditated, cold blooded murder.

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Old 12-01-2005, 12:14 PM   #158 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jking
...one thing that did strike me in this episode is when Sawyer woke up and said something like "Are we saved?" (you know, like "saved") and Kate paused for a second and then replied "Not yet..."

I don't know, that just resonated for me for some reason. Discuss.


This was the very first thing I was coming in here to post, and was surprised that nobody had pointed it out for so long.

After that whole story on "what Kate did," and of course we also know what Sawyer did, that seemed to me to be the most important moment of the show.

Sawyer: Are we saved?
Kate: Not yet.

It was so perfect, it almost gave me a chill. The subplots about individual redemption are so strong on this show. There is much more for these characters to go through on their path to "salvation," both physical, and spiritual/phychological/moral/whatever.

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Old 12-01-2005, 12:22 PM   #159 (Print)
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- They made a point of the fact that Sawyer is always the one cutting wood. It's been pointed out before here that the name Sawyer means "woodcutter" and that the woodcutter or lumberjack is a common character in fairy tales--usually, I think, as either the hero (as in Little Red Riding Hood) or as an example of the common man. Well, Sawyer is not common by any stretch... I wonder if he'll be the one to kill "the monster".

- Did Kate say her father was in Korea? I'll have to check later. If so, we shouldn't be surprised when he crosses the path of Jin or Sun.
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Old 12-01-2005, 12:24 PM   #160 (Print)
hefe
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On Hurley and the food...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Everybody Hates Hugo
[Hurley and Jack on the beach.]
HURLEY: Come on, Jack. The inventory's done, this is the only way.
JACK: Are you serious?
HURLEY: Dude, there's enough food in there to feed 1 guy, 3 meals a day for another 3 months. We have 40 people, it's just not going to work. You put me in charge, this is what we're doing.
JACK [nodding]: Okay.
HURLEY: Okay?
JACK: Yeah, okay.
HURLEY [to himself - relieved]: Okay.
[Montage of Hurley giving peanut butter to Charlie and passing out food; Locke sharing a tin; Shannon sharing with Vincent; Kate and Jack laughing and eating; baby smiling and Charlie giving the peanut butter to Claire; people patting Hurley on the back; Charlie and Hurley hugging; Sun burying the bottle of messages. Then scenes of Jin, Sawyer, Michael; others talking in the background.]


He basically calculated that there were 270 "meals" in the store room. Enough for 1 person for 3 months. But for 40 people, there really was no point in conserving, since that amount would only last less than 3 days. So instead of rationing tightly, they just gave it out. I don't think we needed to see all of it given out to conclude that is basically what happened.

Even so, maybe there is a little left, but not enough to keep them from needing to collect food from the island.

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Old 12-01-2005, 12:25 PM   #161 (Print)
hefe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fool Me Twice
- They made a point of the fact that Sawyer is always the one cutting wood. It's been pointed out before here that the name Sawyer means "woodcutter" and that the woodcutter or lumberjack is a common character in fairy tales--usually, I think, as either the hero (as in Little Red Riding Hood) or as an example of the common man. Well, Sawyer is not common by any stretch... I wonder if he'll be the one to kill "the monster".

- Did Kate say her father was in Korea? I'll have to check later. If so, we shouldn't be surprised when he crosses the path of Jin or Sun.

Good catch. She did, but before Kate was born, or around that time. I don't recall exactly.

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Old 12-01-2005, 12:27 PM   #162 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish Man
Agreed.

The person at the other end of the link might have been Walt. I do not rule that out, why should I?

However, it's more likely that it is one of the "others" messing with Michael, because:
  • How would Walt have access to another computer on the island and if he did how would he know how to "connect" to the "numbers computer" to send a message? (As cryptic as the numbers computer interface is, I doubt Walt found a computer with a menu with the selection, "talk to hatch", thus making this easy.)
  • What a co-incidence that the message comes through the first time that Michael is poking around the computer! The "others" know who Walt's father is, and may well have the "hatch bunker" under surveillance. They would know that Locke and Eko just watched the restored film and that Michael was near the computer!



Don't forget that Walt is "special".
He could be communicating the same way he appears in the forest.

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Old 12-01-2005, 12:32 PM   #163 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fool Me Twice
- Well, Sawyer is not common by any stretch... I wonder if he'll be the one to kill "the monster".


I think you could look for a hint that any number of the characters have future assocation with "the monster". Just last week, for example, after the Gilgamesh/Endiku reference came up ... one of the things in the "Epic of Gilgamesh" is indication of the two friends killing Humbaba, the demon guardian of the trees. If you are to follow the clues that parallel Eko and Locke with Gilgamesh and Endiku, seems like they are going to be the one to kill it.

Great catch on the "woodsman" translation tho.
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Old 12-01-2005, 12:34 PM   #164 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JYoung
Kate, Sawyer, and Ana Lucia all committed premeditated, cold blooded murder.

(Jack, Jack, Jack, what is it with you and bad girls?)
If the suspicions of some on this board are to be believed, maybe he'll take up with Sawyer next?

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Old 12-01-2005, 12:34 PM   #165 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hefe
Good catch. She did, but before Kate was born, or around that time. I don't recall exactly.



She said he was in Korea up until 4 months before she was born.
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Old 12-01-2005, 12:42 PM   #166 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TIVO_GUY_HERE
They have food stored in that bunker right? Poor Sawyer, drifts for days on a raft, gets shot, gets thrown in a pit, gets pistal whipped, almost dies walking from the other side of the island, and Kate has to climb a tree to get him food? If anyone needed a bowl of Wheaties it was him....


Actually, my wife and I have been rewatching the first season DVDs, and Sawyer gets hit/punched/kicked in almost every episode. He's kept it up this season too. Anyone know if one of the websites has a list of how many times he's been abused?
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Old 12-01-2005, 12:48 PM   #167 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoThru22
Did anyone else notice what happened when Jack dropped the dirt on Shannon's wrap? The screen got wavy and it wasn't like a bad satellite signal. It was more like an intentional effect. Go back and watch it again. Especially if you have HD Tivo. I played it a few times and my friend definitely agreed something happened.


Yup, we noticed it here as well. It does LOOK like a (very subtle) intentional effect - going through frame by frame, it looks like a single ripple, going diagonally up and across the screen. However I'm not convinced it wasn't just a glitch in the source somehow or perhaps an editing artifact. Seemed far too subtle to be meaningful.

But whatever it is, it's definitely there...
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Old 12-01-2005, 12:52 PM   #168 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neilaevans
Yup, we noticed it here as well. It does LOOK like a (very subtle) intentional effect - going through frame by frame, it looks like a single ripple, going diagonally up and across the screen. However I'm not convinced it wasn't just a glitch in the source somehow or perhaps an editing artifact. Seemed far too subtle to be meaningful.

But whatever it is, it's definitely there...

Could easily be a glitch in the distribution to the affiliates. I don't recall seeing it, but I've only had the one viewing so far.

Perhaps someone who gets the iTunes download can confirm whether it happens there. I'm betting it's nothing.

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Old 12-01-2005, 01:20 PM   #169 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jschuman
Something that keeps annoying me:

They continually refer to the job of entering the code into the computer as "pushing the button". Why do they do that? They are entering a set of numbers and then pressing enter. Would any of you refer to that as simple "pushing THE button"??

Anyone with me on this one, or am i crazy?


I said the same thing to my husband last night. They're keys.. not a single button! If it was me, I'd be saying "enter the code."

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Old 12-01-2005, 01:26 PM   #170 (Print)
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Either a timeline clue or a production goof, but Kate was trying to buy her bus ticket with a colored $20 bill, which has only been in circulation since Oct 2003.
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Old 12-01-2005, 01:29 PM   #171 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paperboy2003
Last nights episode leads me to think more and more that they're conducting psychological experiments with the people in the hatch(s). They shield them from the outside world, make them press a button with no explanation and warn them about leaving their areas.


Obviously something freaky is happening on the island, with murderers (Others), visions, bunkers, etc... But I agree there is some pyschological component here. Either THEY are being manipulated. OR the original experiment people were manipulated and the survivors don't have anything else to go on but the mythology left behind. (Though on the Dharma/Hanso website, the clue letter is dated 10/05 indicating they still exist!)

I was so hoping they wouldn't be able to enter the numbers this episode (Kate running away or Michael accidently disconnecting the computer). Would there be an incident? If so... what would it look lile?

Best line of the show, involving the best characters. Mr. Eko to Locke: "Don't mistake coincidence for fate." (I'm doing this from memory so I could be slightly off... anyway I thought that was very cool.)

Last edited by davezatz : 12-01-2005 at 01:42 PM.
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Old 12-01-2005, 01:32 PM   #172 (Print)
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Something I just thought about. A lot of conjecture has focused on the idea that the station was there, then some incident occured that necessitated the closing down of what expirements were going on, the posting of the outside as quarantine and the manning of the data console as a fail-safe to ensure someone was indeed there and it had not been compromised in some way.

The fact that the film specifically says that using the console for other purposes can result in another incident kind of turns that on its head and makes me thing more and more that the entering of the numbers is indeed the expirement.

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Old 12-01-2005, 01:34 PM   #173 (Print)
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It was mentioned earlier that Marvin Candle's hair was different in the newly spliced portion of the orientation film, so I checked Sledgeweb's site and as you can see by clicking on this link

http://lost.cubit.net/pics/candles.jpg

the two pictures are noticeably different. So, the question I had was: Is it a continuity error or a clue?

I checked The Fuselage for a thread on the topic and sure enough there was one. Post #46 on this page

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded...?t=28308&page=5

makes a pretty good case that it's a continuity error.

Quote:
Ok, here we go. Please DO NOT PAY ATTENTION TO THE AUDIO, as I did not take the time to sync up the audio. It is incorrect and DOES NOT go with the video. You must also have Divx 5.X installed on your machine or the website will say it cannot play the file.

Here is the original splice in the film:
http://media.putfile.com/Marvin_original

The splice occurs right when he says "Do not attempt to use for the computer for any - Congratulations...". The "Congrats" line comes right when the shot changes from close up to his face to a pulled-back shot.

Ok, now we have the newly restored film:
http://media.putfile.com/Marvin_spliced

Now his entire sentence here is longer. He completes the sentence "Do not attempt to use the computer for anything but entering the code. This is its only function". This is all from the same shot and HE DOES NOT LOOK ANY DIFFERENT.

This means they filmed that entire sentence at the time the original was filmed. After that sentence, it cuts to Locke, then back to the video and the "different" Dr. Candle. The reason he looks different is because they have shot this at a different time.
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Old 12-01-2005, 01:37 PM   #174 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee L
Something I just thought about. A lot of conjecture has focused on the idea that the station was there, then some incident occured that necessitated the closing down of what expirements were going on, the posting of the outside as quarantine and the manning of the data console as a fail-safe to ensure someone was indeed there and it had not been compromised in some way.

The fact that the film specifically says that using the console for other purposes can result in another incident kind of turns that on its head and makes me thing more and more that the entering of the numbers is indeed the expirement.



To kinda build on this.

So the film was there from the start, as far as we know right? So the incident could have no happened to this site, right? If the guy was talking about the incident, then it already happened, and either it was from another site, or the group that created it, came back and gave them a new video?

OR

The incident happened to the group building it, and that is what he is referring to.

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Old 12-01-2005, 01:45 PM   #175 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff125va

And you can definitely drive a car with the airbags deployed. Been there, done that.


Depends on the car, a Toyota Prius won't got into gear, and will isolate the high voltage battery pack (via relays), when the air bags deploy, rendering the car undrivable.
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Old 12-01-2005, 01:45 PM   #176 (Print)
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I think the hair thing is quite a reach.....but then again, this is Lost
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Old 12-01-2005, 01:45 PM   #177 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jschuman
Something that keeps annoying me:

They continually refer to the job of entering the code into the computer as "pushing the button". Why do they do that? They are entering a set of numbers and then pressing enter. Would any of you refer to that as simple "pushing THE button"??

<snip>

Anyone with me on this one, or am i crazy?


Yep, you're crazy, all right.

Same thing as sayiing "I'm going to hit the sack" instead of "I'm going to lie on the bed and sleep".
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Old 12-01-2005, 01:49 PM   #178 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevemcl
Kate doesn't appear to like to be grabbed by men.


She and I have that in common.
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Old 12-01-2005, 01:53 PM   #179 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jking
Yeah, obviously (a) is what Sawyer meant and that's what Kate assumed he meant. If they are in Purgatory, obviously they don't know it and they wouldn't be referring to the (b) definition. I, like PJO1966, just thought it was an odd piece of dialog for the writers to have used, pointing to at least the possibility that it was written that way on purpose.

Again, not saying that I agree with the Purgatory angle. In fact, up until that scene last night, I have not even entertained the notion, choosing to believe what TPTB have stated in the past... that they are, in fact, not in Purgatory. But now I'm thinking, hey, if I had some show with this great mystery and someone had figured it out, I would probably say "nope, that's not it" too in order to try to keep the mystery alive.

Yeah, sorry, I hadn't thought about it from other than Sawyer's point of view, and since I don't buy into the "purgatory" theory at all, I thought it was obvious what he meant.

But yeah, I see what you're saying. From the writers' standpoint, it's a brilliant double-entendre. Redemption from their sins.

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Old 12-01-2005, 01:56 PM   #180 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JYoung
Don't forget that Walt is "special".
He could be communicating the same way he appears in the forest.


I have two theories on the computer. The most likely to me is that Walt is also in another bunker with the "others" and has gotten access to the computer and changed it to communicate (he is supposed to be smart and special and his Dad is a computer nerd.) The other theory is that Walt is projecting like he did with Shannon.
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