TiVo Community Forum

TiVo Community Forum Archive 2
Covering threads with a last post date between
July 1, 2004 and December 31, 2005.
THIS IS A READ ONLY SITE
 


 

SEARCH  |  ARCHIVE 1 MAIN SITE

 
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 12-15-2005, 11:56 PM   #31 (Print)
TSpoonEars
I'll get my coat!
 
TSpoonEars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redux
I don't know many consumer product retailers so I'm asking you, if you don't mind. Just curious. When a consumer product company starts down the road to suicide, do they ever think to call up their retailers and ask "Hey, how do you think people are going to react to all this?"

I hope you have other product lines. Bad as cable is, and horrible as Dish is, DTV is dead.


I'm not sure DTV is dead. I just think they're going after the lowest common denominator. Once the masses start adopting HD in droves, they won't know DirecTV's average DVR from a TiVo, and their HD-lite from 'true' HD. I think DirecTV are very well placed to make bucketloads of cash, I just think they're doing it at the expense of their most loyal and historically most profitable customers.

I believe they misjudged the attraction of the TiVo brand - or at least I hope they have. Once Comcast have the Tivo option, I think it will be interesting to see how many defectors there are, especially if Comcast have a comparable HD offering. I know seeing the Giants baseball in HD will be compelling for me next year, which is not currently an option on DirecTV.
TSpoonEars is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-16-2005, 01:10 AM   #32 (Print)
(bruce_bruce)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by lajohn27
With respect to some of the psychics in this thread.. I'll go the other way.

I believe next gen stand alone TIVO's (SD only) will be MP4 capable at a minimum for playback of broadband based materials and possibly for the encoder/recording functionality.

The HD units will simply record the digital stream from the cableco direct to the hard drive... last I checked that's not likely to change to MP4 - but then.. you never know what those crazy cable kids will do.

But for a standalone analog TIVO (presuming there is a next generation) to ignore MP4 as an encoding/storage solution would be well.. pretty stupid. The gains in storage capacity and quality are too great too ignore.



But at what cost are those gains? How much is an MPEG4 encoder/decoder vs. MPEG2? It may just be easier to put in a bigger hard drive since the prices on those are dropping fast. Let's say MPEG4 gave the same quality but was 20% smaller (just a random %). A 40 hour Tivo is now 48 hours. Nice but not amazing. If the MPEG4 part costs $20 more than the MPEG2, it isn't worth it.

For DTV, the switch to MPEG4 is obvious because they can't add bandwidth easily (i.e. launch a new sat). For a box in your house, it is really a cost analysis of the components.

Quote:
I'm curious why several other folks in this thread use the words "never" and "not on the drawing board" - do you guys work there? Have you seen the secret microfilms the rest of us haven't?

Why the strong opinions?


They are talking about a Tivo for DirecTV. DTV has dropped Tivo and Tivo can't make a DTV box without DTV's permission.

Bruce
(bruce_bruce) is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-16-2005, 09:53 AM   #33 (Print)
mpar1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by TSpoonEars

This paying for upgrades all the time reminds of my PC gaming days and is why I now use the consoles for playing games. With all the money I spent on DirecTV I could have leased cable boxes for about 15 years. It's the Tivo reliability and dual-tuner goodness that keeps me with DirecTV right now and as soon as that UI is on the Comcast boxes I'm off if that's how they're going to treat their best customers.


Count me in also. I agree completely with everything you said. My loyalty to DirecTV is tied heavily into their Tivo integration. If that is lost, I'm looking elsewhere for a company that can provide Tivo.
mpar1 is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-16-2005, 12:12 PM   #34 (Print)
tivoKlr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Minturn, Colorado
Posts: 4
I guess I don't get the affinity that people have to the current HD TiVo, I mean, it's stuck at version 3, no home networking, no networking at all without hacking it, which after hacking my DSR6k over and over I'm pretty much tired of.

Is it because the current HD TiVo records OTA broadcasts? I live in a totally white area, no broadcast signals of any kind, heck, hardly any radio either.

I can say though I would like the native resolution feature, my tv has a much better scaler than the HD TiVo, but I just suck it up and leave the thing at 720p just to make it easy for the wife...

__________________
TivoKlr

DSR6000 - turbonet
tivoKlr is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-16-2005, 02:42 PM   #35 (Print)
TSpoonEars
I'll get my coat!
 
TSpoonEars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by tivoKlr
I guess I don't get the affinity that people have to the current HD TiVo, I mean, it's stuck at version 3, no home networking, no networking at all without hacking it, which after hacking my DSR6k over and over I'm pretty much tired of.

Is it because the current HD TiVo records OTA broadcasts? I live in a totally white area, no broadcast signals of any kind, heck, hardly any radio either.

I can say though I would like the native resolution feature, my tv has a much better scaler than the HD TiVo, but I just suck it up and leave the thing at 720p just to make it easy for the wife...


For me the reason is simple. It simply works. I never have to reboot it, it always records what I want, I just leave it be. Granted it's slow - which is especially noticeable after my SD-Tivo got 6.2, but it still works perfectly. I have no need for networking - I pipe the signal over a modulator to my other non-HD TVs in the house. I did have the HDMI go out, but the replacement has worked perfectly.

I hear stories all the time about other DVRs not recording properly, needing periodic reboots, missing programs etc. I think it's easy to get used to the TiVo reliability, and I'd rather not lose that. Until something proven as reliable with all the fancy new features comes along, I'll follow Tivo. They've earned my loyalty. I'm sorry to say I can't say the same about DirecTV who seem to consistently let me down.
TSpoonEars is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-16-2005, 02:59 PM   #36 (Print)
Fahtrim
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by TSpoonEars
For me the reason is simple. It simply works. I never have to reboot it, it always records what I want, I just leave it be. Granted it's slow - which is especially noticeable after my SD-Tivo got 6.2, but it still works perfectly. I have no need for networking - I pipe the signal over a modulator to my other non-HD TVs in the house. I did have the HDMI go out, but the replacement has worked perfectly.

I hear stories all the time about other DVRs not recording properly, needing periodic reboots, missing programs etc. I think it's easy to get used to the TiVo reliability, and I'd rather not lose that. Until something proven as reliable with all the fancy new features comes along, I'll follow Tivo. They've earned my loyalty. I'm sorry to say I can't say the same about DirecTV who seem to consistently let me down.

I wholeheartedly agree. I have the HR10-250 and get all the locals OTA with the roof mounted PR-8800 and the Pre-amp. I will not change a damn thing until I have to in regards to my DVR. I'm going to enable the networking features, but that's it.

The other DVR's don't compare. Cable is not available at our house so this is the best solution available. Also with OTA we get the true HD feed.

To the original question in this thread. There is currently not a TIVO box that does MPEG4.

Haven't heard or read anything about one in development but that doesn't mean jack squat.

ymmv
Fahtrim is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-16-2005, 03:03 PM   #37 (Print)
smak
Registered User
 
smak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Studio City, CA USA
Posts: 7,432
I think the affinity would be for a real Tivo HD box on directv, not the watered down version of Tivo that we have now.

The current box has never had a significant update, and probably never will.

I would love to have all the features of the standalone tivo on my HD box, but it's never going to happen.

-smak-

__________________
Comptroller - TivoShanan fan club

"I'm sorry, i'm going to have to get back to you, there's a girl in a bathtub on the other line"
smak is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-16-2005, 05:00 PM   #38 (Print)
buzzmc1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 18
Hmm....

Well, I like many switched from Dish to DirecTV for two reasons... One, Dish customer service was terrible, and two, Tivo.

I switched from Cable to Satellite because Cable sucked. Now, Comcast has some nifty offerings, but in many areas, mine included, there are a TON of USEFUL channels that are still analog.

Translation = Cable still sucks, in a lot of places.

I don't know why anyone would go back, until Comcast starts delivering 100% digital content. If they were doing that when I Got fed up w/Dish, I'd probably be a Comcast customer, sign up for cable internet, and drop sbc/yahoo dsl too.

I'm in the same boat with a lot of you... Though I didn't get an HR10-250, I did go to D* for Tivo, and am planning on upgrading to HD, and now I'm in love with Tivo, so I have serious concerns regarding whatever the decide to call their new HD DVR that does MPEG4....

But all that aside, I can't believe anyone that would be receiving some mix of analog and digital cable would switch. That just seems crazy to me... OR... I need to be re-educated, and I've been fed very bad info over the last several months.
buzzmc1 is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-16-2005, 05:03 PM   #39 (Print)
danro
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2
good info

thanks everyone for the info. I was considering buying the Directv HD Tivo receiver. But I'm a big Tivo fan (love the interface, slow or not), and it sounds like it will be dead in two months. Yes, they might let if continue, but who wants to commint to a 2yr contract with Directv and not have a full tvio offering. I'll wait to see what they offer in two months.

Personally, I'll stay away from Comcast as long as possible...too many complaints from friends about their service and reliablity.
danro is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-16-2005, 05:44 PM   #40 (Print)
bpratt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 243
Quote:
I was considering buying the Directv HD Tivo receiver. But I'm a big Tivo fan (love the interface, slow or not), and it sounds like it will be dead in two months.

The HR10-250 won't be dead in two months. It will probably still exist for several years. The only advantage to the new MPEG4 unit for at least the next 2 years will be for those who want to receive local HD channels from DirecTV. I receive all my local channels in my area from an OTA antenna. I do record an occasional HD program from satellite from HBOHD or SHOWHD, but the majority of what I record in HD comes from an antenna on my roof.
I plan on using the HR10-250 for the next 3 to 5 years.

__________________
I use to have money, then I discovered HD TVs & DVRs.
bpratt is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-16-2005, 06:07 PM   #41 (Print)
Gator1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Orlando
Posts: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpratt
The HR10-250 won't be dead in two months. It will probably still exist for several years. The only advantage to the new MPEG4 unit for at least the next 2 years will be for those who want to receive local HD channels from DirecTV. I receive all my local channels in my area from an OTA antenna. I do record an occasional HD program from satellite from HBOHD or SHOWHD, but the majority of what I record in HD comes from an antenna on my roof.
I plan on using the HR10-250 for the next 3 to 5 years.


So if you want a TIVO HD PVR to record HD locals, when they become available, you are SOL as TIVO will never be able to receive MPEG-4 which is required to receive HD locals from Directv. At least this is how it looks to me.
Gator1 is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-16-2005, 08:12 PM   #42 (Print)
TSpoonEars
I'll get my coat!
 
TSpoonEars's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gator1
So if you want a TIVO HD PVR to record HD locals, when they become available, you are SOL as TIVO will never be able to receive MPEG-4 which is required to receive HD locals from Directv. At least this is how it looks to me.


Yes, that is correct. To receive the new HD Locals via DirecTV you will need their new MPEG4 HD capable receivers, none of which will be TiVo based.
TSpoonEars is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-16-2005, 11:44 PM   #43 (Print)
aztivo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: AZ
Posts: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gator1
So if you want a TIVO HD PVR to record HD locals, when they become available, you are SOL as TIVO will never be able to receive MPEG-4 which is required to receive HD locals from Directv. At least this is how it looks to me.

Where do you get that Tivo will never be able to recieve MPEG-4? Do you know what the next tivo box will be??
aztivo is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-17-2005, 08:53 AM   #44 (Print)
maharg18
Registered User
 
maharg18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 3,077
Quote:
Originally Posted by aztivo
Where do you get that Tivo will never be able to recieve MPEG-4? Do you know what the next tivo box will be??



Directv will not let Tivo build another unit to receive Directv signals, therefore we will never see a Tivo that receives an MPEG-4 signal from Directv.

__________________
-Maharg18

HR10-250 HD Directivo
DSR704 SD Directivo
maharg18 is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-17-2005, 11:51 AM   #45 (Print)
Ed Campbell
Registered User
 
Ed Campbell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Santa Fe
Posts: 770
In my neck of the woods, Comcast is obviously preparing for sales tries at D* subscribers. I don't know if they bought the D* list [everything's for sale!], but, I was called earlier this week by a very tech-savvy Comcast direct marketing person. She was in VA.

She knew I was a D* subscriber for a long time. She started right in making it clear she wasn't going to try to get me to drop D*. She also [obviously] knew I subscribed to Comcast broadband. I was offered a net $5/month price cut if I let them run a TV feed to the front of the house and set me up as a basic cable subscriber. Even if I never use it.

Her pitch was it would then be there whenever they had something to offer I might want as an upgrade.

Oh yeah, after I said, "Yes", she bumped my line speed from 4 mbps max to the business rate = 6 mbps.

Their tech is due, next Thursday, to run the add'l line. I like that idea, anyway, because of the potential of eventually feeding broadband hardwired to the living room in addition to my study in the back of the house.

__________________
Sith gun robh so.
Ed Campbell is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-17-2005, 12:48 PM   #46 (Print)
bpratt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 243
Quote:
So if you want a TIVO HD PVR to record HD locals, when they become available, you are SOL as TIVO will never be able to receive MPEG-4 which is required to receive HD locals from Directv. At least this is how it looks to me.

Why would I want to recieve lower quality HD locals from DirecTV when I can receive them all OTA?

__________________
I use to have money, then I discovered HD TVs & DVRs.
bpratt is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-17-2005, 03:06 PM   #47 (Print)
HogarthNH
DirecTV Addict
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Somewhere, OK
Posts: 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpratt
Why would I want to recieve lower quality HD locals from DirecTV when I can receive them all OTA?


Because 90% of the market either can't or doesn't want to have to worry about OTA.

You're not in the core market.
HogarthNH is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-17-2005, 03:19 PM   #48 (Print)
formulaben
Formula Tivo Racing
 
formulaben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon J
Not only will DTV not get my box they'll probably lose me as a customer as soon as the Comcast-TiVo box comes out.


Sadly, I might be in that same catagory too.

__________________
I want HMO for the HDVR2
formulaben is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-17-2005, 05:03 PM   #49 (Print)
1999cobra
Registered User
 
1999cobra's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 50
I second that ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon J
Not only will DTV not get my box they'll probably lose me as a customer as soon as the Comcast-TiVo box comes out.


I'm with you brother - as soon as I can I'm dropping D* like a bad attitude...

They (Comcast) are wiring my town starting this spring goodbye D* - Hello broadband, HD locals and no drop outs...
1999cobra is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-17-2005, 05:08 PM   #50 (Print)
aztivo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: AZ
Posts: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by maharg18
Directv will not let Tivo build another unit to receive Directv signals, therefore we will never see a Tivo that receives an MPEG-4 signal from Directv.

Why does Tivo have to build a D* reciever you know you can hook a SA to a reg. D* riciever and you still have TIVO So when HD is there why couldnt you still do this?
aztivo is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-17-2005, 09:26 PM   #51 (Print)
maharg18
Registered User
 
maharg18's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 3,077
Quote:
Originally Posted by aztivo
Why does Tivo have to build a D* reciever you know you can hook a SA to a reg. D* riciever and you still have TIVO So when HD is there why couldnt you still do this?



Because it would cost lots and lots of money to do this. Encoding an HD signal is still out of reach of the consumer market.

The new Directv HD boxes output component and HDMI/DVI video. Both of these connections are uncompressed, and it would cost a fortune to encode these signals back into MPEG.

__________________
-Maharg18

HR10-250 HD Directivo
DSR704 SD Directivo

Last edited by maharg18 : 12-17-2005 at 09:34 PM.
maharg18 is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-17-2005, 11:25 PM   #52 (Print)
TyroneShoes
HD evangelist
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 1,441
The SD standalone encodes from analog baseband (or RF demodulated to baseband). It needs to do that to achieve digital storage efficiency for analog video. An encoder for a DT standalone is not necessary, as it is for the conventional standalone Tivo. DT OTA is already MPEG encoded, and thus already compressed for efficient storage.

All that a OTA DT standalone would have to do is exactly what the HR10 does today, minus the sat receiving capability, which is demodulate 8VSB to data, and write/read that to/from the HDD. The EPG info is delivered by sat, but there is no reason that it could not be delivered retro-fashion over dialup, just like the SD standalones. If they could incorporate PSIP, they could minimize the number of calls to the mothership.

The HR10 could technically be used as a standalone for OTA DT with as little as a software up rev, but Tivo probably is contracturally barred by their DTV agreement to even think along those lines.

IOW, what that means is that if they wished to put a standalone OTA DT Tivo out there, R&D is all but complete on it. But a standalone that would work with a DBS tuner for sat-delivered HD is not in the cards. What is being wished for (a TIvo standalone to work with DBS signals) won't be soon coming, but what is really needed by many of us (a TIvo standalone for OTA DT) probably isn't too very far away.
TyroneShoes is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-18-2005, 05:32 PM   #53 (Print)
pezlion
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2
Will there never be another HD channel added to DirecTv service in MPEG-2 format? The last new addition I know of was ESPN2. I have no interest in changing anything of my current setup. I get all of my locals just fine OTA. I love my HD-Tivo capability. I won't switch to cable because of the sports offerings with DirecTv. However, I'd like to be able to receive new, non-local HD offerings from DirecTv. So I guess my question is, will every single future HD offering be MPEG-4?
pezlion is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-18-2005, 06:50 PM   #54 (Print)
jhimmel
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 94
Doubtful that we will see any HD additions in Mpeg-2
jhimmel is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-18-2005, 10:03 PM   #55 (Print)
aenea
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: CA
Posts: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by aztivo
Where do you get that Tivo will never be able to recieve MPEG-4? Do you know what the next tivo box will be??


Because, they really just aren't that silly. The Directv relationship is over as far as new equipment is concerned, so they can't build an mpeg4 box to directly record DTV signals.

They could build a stand-alone mpeg4 box, but what would be the point? Digital cable channels are encoded as mpeg2; Comcast is well into its digital simulcast conversion, and TimeWarner has said that they want to have 1/2 their systems converted by the end of the year. A cable-card standalone Tivo in that environment that converted the signal to mpeg4 would actually give you a decrease in quality, and what's the point in that?
aenea is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-18-2005, 10:07 PM   #56 (Print)
Adam1115
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Milliken, CO
Posts: 312
Send a message via AIM to Adam1115 Send a message via Yahoo to Adam1115
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpratt
Why would I want to recieve lower quality HD locals from DirecTV when I can receive them all OTA?


You wouldn't, their obviously not spending millions of dollars to launch satellites to service people who already have it now for free!!

If you are in the Denver Market for example, you have two choices:

1) Move within 4 miles of downtown Denver to pick up their low power digital broadcasts. (Imagine what THAT would do to housing prices!)

2) Get cable (if your fortunate to live in a major area that has comcast, I have US Cable which doesn't even offer a DVR let alone HD...)

3) Get the new MPEG4 locals on sat from DirecTV, lose TiVo.

__________________
Hughes HR10-250 - 250 Hrs
Hughes SD-DVR40 - 239 Hrs
Hughes SD-DVR80 - 112 Hrs
Adam1115 is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-29-2005, 09:42 PM   #57 (Print)
nickg2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 21
i know that Verizon FIOS TV isn't offering MPEG-4 (at least not yet), but as soon FIOS is available here i'll will sign up in a second. more HD channels available and not having to pay extra for locals. the only thing that i would REALLY miss would be east/west nets.

can't have everything i guess.
nickg2 is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-30-2005, 07:12 PM   #58 (Print)
Ed_Hunt
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Patterson, California
Posts: 74
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jotas
Me four. I am going to have to price it out and possibly go back to cable, but I will probably only jump after hearing reviews and possibly seeing the box in action. I still would not let Comcast take my receivers as they are claiming they need to do with their latest promo/junk mail that I have been receiving.




I just this week switched from Dtv to comcast. They have a long way to go to be anything even remotely comparable to tivo. That being said, however, I love the HD locals with no dropout or pixilization. Comcast did not mention taking my receivers, and gave me $25 off the package price for 16 months because I switched from satellite. That along with high speed internet for 3 months at $19.95 and $49.95 thereafter.
Ed

__________________
Luck is the residue of design

3 comcast series III dvrs'
62" Toshiba DLP
Ed_Hunt is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
Old 12-30-2005, 07:55 PM   #59 (Print)
formulaben
Formula Tivo Racing
 
formulaben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed_Hunt
I just this week switched from Dtv to comcast. They have a long way to go to be anything even remotely comparable to tivo. That being said, however, I love the HD locals with no dropout or pixilization. Comcast did not mention taking my receivers, and gave me $25 off the package price for 16 months because I switched from satellite. That along with high speed internet for 3 months at $19.95 and $49.95 thereafter.
Ed


If the rumors are true, there'll be an HDTV Comcast Tivo box sometime in '06. When it comes out I'll be cable bound.

__________________
I want HMO for the HDVR2
formulaben is offline Report Bad Post Report Post
 
Forum Jump
Thread Tools

Go Back  TiVo Community Archive2 > Main TiVo Forums > HDTV TiVo Powered PVRs

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:44 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.0.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
(C)opyright - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not affiliated with TiVo Inc.


Spider History Index