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Old 12-30-2005, 01:03 PM   #151 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unixadm
Then why do they have Drug Sniffing dogs at the airport? .


Not that I disagree with the rest of your post, but I'm not sure they have drug sniffing dogs at non-International airports.

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Old 12-30-2005, 01:05 PM   #152 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Langree
Waiting for the lab results would be my guess. If she had no way to post bail that's on her.

How complicated can the test be?

Take one of the condom's contents, and see if you can bake a cupcake with it. 20 minutes. Done.

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Old 12-30-2005, 01:08 PM   #153 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodSpike
You act as if they wanted to lock her up that long. Typically they don't really like people locked up due to the expense.

Passaic County in NJ actually makes money for keeping prisioners in their holding facility. Something to do with state subsidies or something like that. So not only are they in no hurry to accomodate your speedy release, they are incentivized to dawdle.

It's one of the many reasons PC is as corrupt as it is.

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Old 12-30-2005, 01:09 PM   #154 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hefe
How complicated can the test be?

Take one of the condom's contents, and see if you can bake a cupcake with it. 20 minutes. Done.


Maybe they were waiting on fresh blueberries.

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Old 12-30-2005, 01:15 PM   #155 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hefe
How complicated can the test be?

Take one of the condom's contents, and see if you can bake a cupcake with it. 20 minutes. Done.


Again, I'll mention the CSI effect. I suspect this wasn't the only test waiting to be run at the crime lab. This probably also wasn't a high priority test (although it probably wasn't a low priority test either).

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Old 12-30-2005, 01:18 PM   #156 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unixadm
Then why do they have Drug Sniffing dogs at the airport? What about the customs officials that look for illegal Cuban Cigars and confiscate them? I don't think a cigar is used to injure others.


That's customs. It's border security, and import/export policy. It's completely different from domestic law enforcement. There are no drug sniffing dogs in security for domestic flights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unixadm
Anything carried into an airport is subject to search. A person is subject to search just by walking onto airport property. Anything found can be confiscated, and the person can be charged if it is illegal. 4th Amendment rights is only to protect you when on your property....not when you agree to it by entering someone else's property. There are signs all over the airport stating that "All bags and persons can be searched". You agree to give up your rights by walking on property.


That the Fourth Amendment fails to protect you outside your home is entirely false. You have Fourth Amendment rights in the street, at work, at the mall, and even at the airport. The rationale is that you consent to a search (waiving some of your Fourth Amendment rights) when you fly commercial, but the search to which you are consenting is limited to searches designed to find weapons and explosives - it's a search for public safety, not for law enforcement or criminal investigation.
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Old 12-30-2005, 01:19 PM   #157 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hefe
How complicated can the test be?

Take one of the condom's contents, and see if you can bake a cupcake with it. 20 minutes. Done.


What if it's a brownie instead?
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Old 12-30-2005, 01:19 PM   #158 (Print)
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This is DNA testing, so slightly different, but here's an excerpt:

"Indeed, the research indicates that staffing and operational constraints on crime laboratories are so pronounced that law enforcement agencies report they often must wait for as long as one to two years for DNA results, even in cases involving a named suspect known to be included in the national database. The wait can be much longer in cases related to property crimes, according to the study, which quotes some law enforcement officials as indicating they must wait more than four years for lab results in cases that are not deemed to be of "major significance."

http://researchnews.wsu.edu/society/58.html

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Old 12-30-2005, 01:22 PM   #159 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aindik
That the Fourth Amendment fails to protect you outside your home is entirely false. You have Fourth Amendment rights in the street, at work, at the mall, and even at the airport.


I'd agree with this, except I didn't know anyone actually thought that. If anything, people think their rights are greater than they are. People think that what they do in public is somehow private!

Or another example, the recent press reports of testing for radiation outside of Muslim places of worship, etc. The press really had to stretch there to claim that was an issue.

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Old 12-30-2005, 01:27 PM   #160 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodSpike
I'd agree with this, except I didn't know anyone actually thought that.


Confused on what "that" is, but ok.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodSpike
If anything, people think their rights are greater than they are. People think that what they do in public is somehow private!

Or another example, the recent press reports of testing for radiation outside of Muslim places of worship, etc. The press really had to stretch there to claim that was an issue.


Before you dismiss that out of hand, consider a recent Supreme Court case holding it unconstitutional to use heat imaging sensors on people's homes (without a warrant) to determine whether heat lamps were being used therein (for growing marijuana). Rationale was that what was being monitored was the goings on inside the home, and that technology should only allow the police to "see" inside private spaces what they couldn't see with their naked eye if the technology is in common use by the general (non-law-enforcement) public, such that the person being monitored couldn't reasonably believe that his conduct is private from the non-law-enforcement public. An airplane or a helicopter is in common use by the public. So are binoculors. Heat imaging sensors are not. Are Geiger counters?
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Old 12-30-2005, 01:35 PM   #161 (Print)
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Actually, I had considered that in a forum where political talk is allowed.

My analysis was that they are measuring stuff outside the building--the particles that escape. With the other they are sensing heat inside the building, but here they are measuring what comes out. More like seeing smoke coming out of a chimney.

BTW, "that" was thinking the 4th didn't apply outside the house.

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Old 12-30-2005, 02:06 PM   #162 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unixadm
If you are pulled over, it is most likely because YOU did something wrong! You were speeding, make an illegal turn, weaved on the road, had something wrong with your car, etc. They are doing their job.


Or just going through a road block / check point. I have been through a few in my life and wasn't doing anything wrong at the time. Once I did get a ticket for windows tint though. They haven't done any lately around her but, I am sure there will be a ton tomorrow night.
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Old 12-30-2005, 02:08 PM   #163 (Print)
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I was once pulled over for a tinted license plate holder. I think the cop just wanted to see who was inside the car with tinted windows, but it was hardly a suspect car (a 95 Dodge Stratus).

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Old 12-30-2005, 02:12 PM   #164 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aindik
The government does not have "every right" to search for things that are illegal, wherever they want. There's this pesky Fourth Amendment they have to deal with.



Guess you haven't heard of the Patriot Act?

I will leave it at that since we shouldn't be talking politics here.
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Old 12-30-2005, 02:16 PM   #165 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aindik
A "concert, football game or whatever" is not the government, or, it's the government searching you when you enter government property. Airplanes are neither.


A couple days (2 I think) after 9/11 Bush went to game 1 of the World Series. And the Secrete Service setup metal detectors. Patted down people. There are ALWAYS uniformed NYC police at Yankee games. Sometimes only a few. Other times more. This was before 9/11 too. They are normally are not the security screeners when you try to get into the stadium though.
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Old 12-30-2005, 02:34 PM   #166 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcondon
A couple days (2 I think) after 9/11 Bush went to game 1 of the World Series. And the Secrete Service setup metal detectors. Patted down people. There are ALWAYS uniformed NYC police at Yankee games. Sometimes only a few. Other times more. This was before 9/11 too. They are normally are not the security screeners when you try to get into the stadium though.


I had the same faulty recollection of when airplanes started flying, but I can tell you the World Series did not start a couple of days after 9/11. The Seattle Mariners pretty well fell apart after 9/11.

I went to one of the Mariner games after 9/11 (it was a delayed game, btw) and I remember a policeman letting a gasoline tanker truck turn right to go right through the crowd and next to the stadium. I don't think they were that stupid in NYC even before 9/11.

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Old 12-30-2005, 02:41 PM   #167 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodSpike
I had the same faulty recollection of when airplanes started flying, but I can tell you the World Series did not start a couple of days after 9/11. The Seattle Mariners pretty well fell apart after 9/11.

I went to one of the Mariner games after 9/11 (it was a delayed game, btw) and I remember a policeman letting a gasoline tanker truck turn right to go right through the crowd and next to the stadium. I don't think they were that stupid in NYC even before 9/11.


Baseball regular seasons last until the first week in October, and I have a recollection of everything being postponed a week after 9/11. Bush would not have been at a baseball game 2 days after 9/11.

As for the checking, it was for security, and you consented to the security search when you entered the stadium. They were not searching for bags of pot.
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Old 12-30-2005, 02:58 PM   #168 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcondon
A couple days (2 I think) after 9/11 Bush went to game 1 of the World Series. And the Secrete Service setup metal detectors. Patted down people. There are ALWAYS uniformed NYC police at Yankee games. Sometimes only a few. Other times more. This was before 9/11 too. They are normally are not the security screeners when you try to get into the stadium though.


It was game 3 of the Series...NY Yankees against the Arizona Diamondbacks, which the Yankees won, 2-1... and it was October 30th 2001. Yankees won Games 4 and 5 in NY, then went on to lose Game 6 in Arizona on November 3rd, (by a ridiculous score) then lost Game 7 in Arizona on Sunday November 4th, thus ending the series.

I know....I was there at Game 3. Got there WAY early, and still missed most of the 1st inning! Watched the "Fly By" of the Air Force from outside the stadium while standing in line to get to the search area.

They had us take our shoes, jackets, belts, watches, etc off and had full metal detection and pat down searches before going into the stadium.

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Old 12-30-2005, 03:22 PM   #169 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodSpike
I had the same faulty recollection of when airplanes started flying, but I can tell you the World Series did not start a couple of days after 9/11. The Seattle Mariners pretty well fell apart after 9/11.


Your right the final WS game was played on 10/31 I think and went past midnight (Eastern time). They said Jeter was Mr. Novemeber I think.

Anyway it was shortly after 9/11 that I had to pass though a metal detector and was patted down (everyone I saw was also patted down).
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Old 12-30-2005, 03:26 PM   #170 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aindik
Airline security is security, not law enforcement. Their job is to search for things that may be used to injure other passengers, not anything that may be illegal or evidence of a crime.

What if those flour-filled condoms appeared to have the same "signature" on the screening equipment as some sort of explosive (like fertilizer)?

There are certainly cheaper, easier, and less suspect ways to package powdered materials than in condoms. (And how do young college women get their hands on those things?!? )
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Old 12-30-2005, 03:27 PM   #171 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aindik
As for the checking, it was for security, and you consented to the security search when you entered the stadium. They were not searching for bags of pot.


I had paid close to $200 for the ticket well before 9/11. I wasn't going to sell it or not go. And I can assure you when I was asked to empty my pockets if I had put drugs (or flour in a condom) down in the basket I would have been arrested.

A small amount of drugs they MAY have just took my ticket and had a NYC cop issue a bench warrant type ticket. They would NOT have just let me go into the game with drugs. Nor would they have let me go without at least a ticket.

They may not have been primarily interested in drugs but, they surely weren't going to let it pass either. The also would not have let me take booze in either.
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Old 12-30-2005, 03:31 PM   #172 (Print)
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I was there too. I think we left Yonkers around 4:45 to get down there and in. We didn't have to remove our shoes. I don't normally wear a belt or a watch though.

We left WAY early. We knew it was going to be nuts. I think we ended up hanging out in the parking lot for a bit before going in. Made it for the fly over. We couldn't see it from the seats we had. Could hear it though. We also were able to see Bush's chopper come in and leave from our seats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unixadm
It was game 3 of the Series...NY Yankees against the Arizona Diamondbacks, which the Yankees won, 2-1... and it was October 30th 2001. Yankees won Games 4 and 5 in NY, then went on to lose Game 6 in Arizona on November 3rd, (by a ridiculous score) then lost Game 7 in Arizona on Sunday November 4th, thus ending the series.

I know....I was there at Game 3. Got there WAY early, and still missed most of the 1st inning! Watched the "Fly By" of the Air Force from outside the stadium while standing in line to get to the search area.

They had us take our shoes, jackets, belts, watches, etc off and had full metal detection and pat down searches before going into the stadium.
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Old 12-30-2005, 03:32 PM   #173 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcondon
We also were able to see Bush's chopper come in and leave from our seats.


Good thing you left your seats early!

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Old 12-30-2005, 03:32 PM   #174 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcondon
I had paid close to $200 for the ticket well before 9/11. I wasn't going to sell it or not go. And I can assure you when I was asked to empty my pockets if I had put drugs (or flour in a condom) down in the basket I would have been arrested.

A small amount of drugs they MAY have just took my ticket and had a NYC cop issue a bench warrant type ticket. They would NOT have just let me go into the game with drugs. Nor would they have let me go without at least a ticket.

They may not have been primarily interested in drugs but, they surely weren't going to let it pass either. The also would not have let me take booze in either.


Of course, if they actually found the drugs, they aren't required to ignore them because it wasn't what they were looking for. But it's not what they're (supposed to be) looking for, and I don't think there was any penalty if you didn't actually empty your pockets, but only took out items that might trip a metal detector.

Though, I'll admit that the airborne biological agent is an interesting case.
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Old 12-30-2005, 03:38 PM   #175 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcondon
I was there too. I think we left Yonkers around 4:45 to get down there and in. We didn't have to remove our shoes. I don't normally wear a belt or a watch though.

We left WAY early. We knew it was going to be nuts. I think we ended up hanging out in the parking lot for a bit before going in. Made it for the fly over. We couldn't see it from the seats we had. Could hear it though. We also were able to see Bush's chopper come in and leave from our seats.


We came from NJ, so it took us a while to get to the stadium....and we had seats ALL THE WAY at the top...still, it was cool to be there.



Well, I guess I've brought this thread way off topic

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Old 12-30-2005, 03:56 PM   #176 (Print)
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Finally finished reading through this - I have to say I agree with aindik on this one. What the girl did was surely stupid, but it warrants repeating that she did nothing illegal. Thus, spending 3 weeks in jail is entirely uncalled for.

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Old 12-30-2005, 04:22 PM   #177 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcondon
Would I feel sorry for someone else who for whatever reason thought they needed to pack real flour in their suitcase when they flew. Say they were just too cheap to buy flour when they get where they are going? Or maybe its a type of flour they can't get where they are going. Maybe.


Not unheard of. My ILs live in New Hampshire and we occasionally visit King Arthur Flour while we're up there. As long as it didn't push me over a weight or bag allowance with the airline, it would be perfectly logical to buy specialty flours there, rather than pay shipping from ordering them online.

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Old 12-30-2005, 04:39 PM   #178 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreadPirateRob
Finally finished reading through this - I have to say I agree with aindik on this one. What the girl did was surely stupid, but it warrants repeating that she did nothing illegal. Thus, spending 3 weeks in jail is entirely uncalled for.


It was her fault she spent 3 weeks in jail. They suspect her of smuggling drugs because of her stupid prank, arrest her, and set bail until they can get the test results back. If she can't post bail, it is HER fault. How were the police supposed to know it was flour and a joke? Just take her word for it? If she is going to play a "joke", she should be prepared to take the consequences that result from that.

If I get stopped at Wal-Mart for suspected shoplifting, and the police are brought in, as long as the circumstantial evidence supports it, they will arrest me, and set bail. If I can't make bail, then I may sit in jail for days or weeks. Even if I didn't shoplift, the fact is, I was accused of it, there was enough evidence to warrant additional investigation, and I would have to either post bail, or sit in jail until it was sorted out.

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Old 12-30-2005, 04:57 PM   #179 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unixadm
It was her fault she spent 3 weeks in jail. They suspect her of smuggling drugs because of her stupid prank, arrest her, and set bail until they can get the test results back. If she can't post bail, it is HER fault. How were the police supposed to know it was flour and a joke? Just take her word for it? If she is going to play a "joke", she should be prepared to take the consequences that result from that.

If I get stopped at Wal-Mart for suspected shoplifting, and the police are brought in, as long as the circumstantial evidence supports it, they will arrest me, and set bail. If I can't make bail, then I may sit in jail for days or weeks. Even if I didn't shoplift, the fact is, I was accused of it, there was enough evidence to warrant additional investigation, and I would have to either post bail, or sit in jail until it was sorted out.


There's a slight difference between the bail set for you as a shoplifting suspect, and bail set for her as a suspect for posession with intent to distribute of over a kilo of coke or heroin. Her bail was $500,000. With bail set that high, unattainable for most people, it is incumbent upon the police, if there is a way of categorically determining her innocence, to do so with all deliberate speed.

And, back to the original question of the thread, if you sat in jail for days or weeks accused of shoplifting that you didn't commit, I'd feel sorry for you.
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Old 12-30-2005, 04:59 PM   #180 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aindik
And, back to the original question of the thread, if you sat in jail for days or weeks accused of shoplifting that you didn't commit, I'd feel bad for you.


I don't know. He obviously has high tolerances for pain if he shops at Wal-mart.

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