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View Poll Results: How Important is This to You?
It's so important that I'd pay extra for it. 87 16.23%
It's important but I wouldn't pay extra for it. 371 69.22%
Not important, but I'd probably use it if it was free. 59 11.01%
I'd probably never use it one way or the other. 19 3.54%
Voters: 536. You may not vote on this poll

 
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Old 03-19-2003, 12:18 PM   #31 (Print)
HTH
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Aren't you assuming that a network's schedule is always so many minutes off throughout every day? In my experience, Friends always runs long and ER always starts early, and that's two shows on the same NBC station on the same night. A single offset for an entire channel wouldn't address problems like that.

Also, changing TiVo's concept of time on a per channel basis won't alter the reality that two shows on different channels overlap by 1 or 2 minutes. You're still going to miss the end of one or the start of the next.

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Old 04-05-2003, 02:39 PM   #32 (Print)
May23Twin
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This is my first foray into posting in the forum and I have tried to become educated on what has been posted before, but I apologize in advance if my post is redundant. Some of the talk here is quite frankly over my head, so I am wondering if someone may provide me with a simple answer to what seems to be a simple question (or comment, rather.)

My specific problem: I am running into a problem of coming to the end of CSI and having it cut off just when things are coming together in the story. That only needs to happen once before you start looking at solutions. So, I padded. Now we miss ER. Quite frankly, I don't mind missing the first minute or two of ER when they are probably just showing the "Previously on ER..."

Why can't we have an option of TiVo telling us that it is going to conflict and then giving the option of switching over to the next channel after the padding on the previous channel is done?

Thanks for your patience if this is just rehashed stuff that I have overlooked in my research so far.

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Old 04-16-2003, 12:09 PM   #33 (Print)
devdogaz
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I'm new here but this issue is the whole reason I came to the forum. I don't really care about all the technical stuff about priority and soft vs. hard coding. The only thing I'm interested in is being able to change the time the show stops taping. I guess you all call this negative padding. Most shows end a couple of minutes before the top of the hour and many networks start their shows a minute or so early. It would seem like a no brainer to me that TiVo would add this feature into their software to allow you to end one or two minutes early. I mean their slogan is "TV YOUR WAY."

The only time someone would need to put in this "reverse" padding is when they are taping shows back to back. So there shouldn't be an issue with the networks freaking out about viewers not taping commercials since they will simply be taping different commercials on a different channel. Besides, when you tape a show with TiVo, who watches the commercials anyway? Isn't that one of the reasons we pay a monthly fee to have this technology so we don't have to watch commericials?

Bottom Line: There is absolutely no reason why they can't allow the user to end the show a couple of minutes early. It can't be difficult to program, and it's not like they need network permission. Figuring out that other stuff with hard and soft padding, priorities, special events running long, etc. is a completely seperate issue. For now, it would simply be nice to be able to set the TiVo to do what I want it to do so I can have "TV MY WAY."
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Old 06-02-2003, 03:53 PM   #34 (Print)
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Just out of curiousity, does anyone know of a reason why TiVo doesn't offer this option? Why can't you elect to miss the first or last minute of a show? Why can't I program to record manually down to the minute rather than down to 5 minutes? Is there a logical reason for this or is it just something they haven't bothered to work on? I simply cannot figure out why they would allow you to extend your recording on the front and back ends but not allow you to cut into it?

I actually just thought of a "reason." Could it be that TiVo is selling its data to advertisers? Not that this would be a big revelation or that there is even anything wrong with it. But maybe they provide some sort of figure to advertisers that a certain show was recorded by x amount of people. If they allowed users to cut into the recording by a few minutes on either end, TiVo would then have to provide more detailed data to the advertisers about how many people recorded which portion(s) of the show.

OK, I understand why that might be semi-legitimate. But the fact is, who watches commercials anyway when they are watching a recorded show? And what about the people who manually record a show and cut off the first or last 5 minutes?

I just don't see any real reason why we don't have the freedom to record any portion of any show we choose. Please, explain it to me or start offering it!

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Old 06-04-2003, 04:31 PM   #35 (Print)
papabrody
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Quote:
Originally posted by devdogaz
Just out of curiousity, does anyone know of a reason why TiVo doesn't offer this option?


IMO, TIVO has stopped enhancing its basic PVR software and is only interested in enhancements that they can charge extra for i.e. HMO. Grouping/Folders was the only real non-HMO enhancement in 4.0 and it was implemented in the most rudimentary fashion. Padding was one of the last major enhancements and it was sometime ago. I don't blame TIVO for trying to figure out ways to make money and stay in business, I am just frustrated that enhancements that seem to be a natural evolution of the software like soft padding, FSI, batch save to vcr etc don't seem to be on the radar screen.
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Old 07-15-2003, 01:34 AM   #36 (Print)
JaguarCRO
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Sports Programs really make things difficult.

I pay for a sports package for MLS Soccer and every broadcast is 6 hours long. The games can not run any longer than 2 hours and 20 minutes (Soccer has a clock that is pretty much always running so very little "extra time" is added on.)

Unfortunately TiVo is stupid though and will not let me override the 6 hour window DirectTV schedules for these events (The window sizes I am sure were determined by much lengthier sports like Baseball or Football).

I know the "shorter recording" can be done because I have been doing it manually for over 6 weeks (usually about 5-7 times per week). So why can't TiVo provide some negative padding option. Heck even a granularity of 30 minutes would be good enough for me.

It sounds like though TiVo has given up on solving user problems (even in the case where I would be willing to pay for the software upgrade) Personally this feature alone would be worth at least $50 in saved time for me.
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Old 07-29-2003, 11:48 AM   #37 (Print)
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Definitely need to be able to start a recording late/end a recording early. Like many other folks, I've run into this situation many times.
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Old 08-03-2003, 02:07 PM   #38 (Print)
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This is coming from a DishDVR 501 owner who is about ready to dump Dish Network in favor of a DirecTivo Series 2... so please don't flame me...

Cartoon Network has an anime block that runs from 9-11 PM PT. They tend to start a program up to one minute early, and end the program three minutes early. If there are two shows I want to watch, I had two choices: Program a hour long block, or two seperate half-hour blocks.

So, where does the conflict begin? In Sacramento, the local CBS station runs prime-time programming from 7-10 instead of 8-11. CSI: Miami airs 9-10 PM Mondays. Thus, if I interpret things correctly on a DirecTivo, if I have padding set up, CSI would be recording on one tuner, while the first Adult Swim show records on Cartoon Network. But, due to a conflict due to padding, the second half-hour show would not be recorded, or CSI: Miami would not be recorded.

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Old 08-07-2003, 08:35 PM   #39 (Print)
Zaphod
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I've had my TiVo now for 6 or 8 months (not sure exactly). Padding is really my only pet peve about TiVo, but it's a MAJOR one. The two most common situations I run into are:

1. 2 programs back to back on the same channel where the 1st one is padded to run long: ABSOLUTELY no reason not to still record the 2nd program after the first. JUST DO IT!!!!
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Old 08-07-2003, 08:35 PM   #40 (Print)
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I've had my TiVo now for 6 or 8 months (not sure exactly). Padding is really my only pet peve about TiVo, but it's a MAJOR one. The two most common situations I run into are:

1. 2 programs back to back on the same channel where the 1st one is padded to run long: ABSOLUTELY no reason not to still record the 2nd program after the first. JUST DO IT!!!!
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Old 08-07-2003, 08:41 PM   #41 (Print)
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Shoot, hit something on my keyboard that posted my above message before I was done with it. Anyway, continuing...

The second scenario being 2 programs back to back on different channels. I realize that there's a lot of different possibilities with this one, but at the very least TiVo should offer the option (a simple global on or off would be fine with me) that when there's padding conflicts on different channels, still record the 2nd one once the padding from the first one is finished. Not a complete solution by any means, but a very simple solution that would cover 90% of my situations.
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Old 08-08-2003, 12:21 PM   #42 (Print)
JimKoke
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This thread has received a lot of attention, I'd like to summarize what I've seen:

Basic Problem:
Some TiVo recordings are not complete, either the beginning (under-run) or the end (over-run) is missing.

Causes:
1) Some programs are "over-run" intentionally by the network.
2) A program can be "over-run" due to a late running program (sports)
3) A program runs over because its of a type that runs over, usually a sporting event.
4) A program is under/over-run because all programs on that channel are under/over-run, due to that channel using the wrong time. This is not the same as #1, which refers to individual programs.

Current solution:
"Positive Padding" (increasing the recording time) at the beginning or the end of the program.

Problems with Current solution:
The TiVo scheduler is rigid and considers even a 1 minute overlap to be a scheduling conflict and refuses to record the second program.

Proposed Solutions to existing situation:

1) Allow for "Negative Padding", subtracting time to prevent overlap of programs.
(Down-side: requires a lot of viewer intervention to ensure everything gets recorded, which is what TiVo is supposed to for us.)

2) Provide an option to TiVo letting it start recording a conflicting program late, so as not to miss a 2 hour movie because the first 2 minutes were not recorded. This option could be a global option and should also include letting TiVo search for and record a complete showing of the episode.

3) Provide a +/- padding option on a per-channel basis. There are channels that are off by a minute or two from the rest of the world and it is tedious to have to remember that certain programs always need to be offset. Also consider a wishlist that picks up programs from various channels, some of which need to be offset.


So what is TiVo's position on this issue? The size of this thread appears to be sufficient to warrant comment and/or action from TiVo.
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Old 08-15-2003, 03:28 PM   #43 (Print)
bvanorsdel
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I've surfed through this thread, and want to add one more situation where reverse padding will help:

Our Tivo is full of Kid's programs, Like Bob the Builder, Dora the Explorer, etc. many of these kids programs end inside of 22 minutes.

So, if we get a negative padding option, it needs to have more choices than 1 minute, 5 minutes, etc.

Having this feature would save recording space on our Tivo, making Tivo more valuable to us.
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Old 09-13-2003, 05:11 AM   #44 (Print)
ritholtz
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I share the problem with shows runnign a minute or 2 late; If you pad a 9pm show, and have a 9:30 show scheduled, TiVo punts recording the entire 9:30 show.

If I pad the 9pm show for a 2 minute overlap, why can't TiVo simply record the second show 2 minutes late, instead of cancelling it altogether?

The mechanism would be a global set up choice:
ALLOW PARTIAL RECORDINGS? (Yes/No)

That resolves the padding problem.

The implementation can use 2 variables:
TiVo can either use the same priority as the wishlist ranking mechanism (A higher priority wishlist season pass with a 2 minute pad will "overlap" the lower priority)

Or, it could be strictly chronological: (pm records of the pad time of the 9:30 program.
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Old 09-22-2003, 05:43 AM   #45 (Print)
ccwf
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Quote:
Originally posted by JimKoke
This thread has received a lot of attention, I'd like to summarize what I've seen […]

So what is TiVo's position on this issue? The size of this thread appears to be sufficient to warrant comment and/or action from TiVo.
In addition to the points you posted, you left out the very important poll results attached to this thread, in which people have voted that padding isn't so important to them that they would pay for it. So, what we have is a large majority who either don't think better padding is important or want TiVo to add it for free. If people voted that they would actually pay for better padding, maybe we'd see some action on this issue.
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Old 10-27-2003, 01:09 AM   #46 (Print)
no_mayl
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Quote:
Originally posted by ccwf
So, what we have is a large majority who either don't think better padding is important or want TiVo to add it for free.

Or they think padding is broken and should be fixed.
The obvious one to fix is the "back 2 back on same channel".

if (todoEntry[cur].end.time > newEntry.start.time) {
ResolveConflictUsingPriority(todoEntry[cur], newEntry);
}
else {
AcceptEntry(newEntry);
}

should be changed to:

if (todoEntry[cur].end.time > newEntry.start.time
&& todoEntry[cur].channel != newEntry.channel) {
ResolveConflictUsingPriority(todoEntry[cur], newEntry);
}
else if (todoEntry[cur].end.time > newEntry.start.time) {
ForceStartTimeAfter(todoEntry[cur], newEntry);
AcceptEntry(newEntry);
}
else {
AcceptEntry(newEntry);
}



Some of the other padding issues are way more complicated.

Please add another poll that rates the various padding issues seperately.

PS: Have me sign an NDA, and I'll work on a fix for free during my spare time. That is how important this is to me.
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Old 10-27-2003, 01:17 AM   #47 (Print)
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Note that many of these issues are solved by using the soft-padding hack instead of hard padding. Currently, however, soft padding is a single global amount. Feel free to volunteer to extend the functionality.
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Old 11-13-2003, 04:43 PM   #48 (Print)
doubledrat
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Quote:
Originally posted by ccwf
In addition to the points you posted, you left out the very important poll results attached to this thread, in which people have voted that padding isn't so important to them that they would pay for it. So, what we have is a large majority who either don't think better padding is important or want TiVo to add it for free. If people voted that they would actually pay for better padding, maybe we'd see some action on this issue.


we all already pay a subscription to tivo . That's why people won't vote to pay for this feature.

anyway, for the brave/technical out there, there is now a fantastic little hack by "sanderton" that allows completely soft start and end padding check here

it's not as flexible as many would *want*, but it's 99% of what most people *need* and it's here and it's free

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Old 01-02-2004, 03:38 PM   #49 (Print)
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It seems that Tivo does some things out of fear of the networks. That they don't want to be sued or anything like that.

Negative/Soft/Reverse padding would do nothing but help the networks. Right now so many people are mad at NBC for playing the minute game (most notably with CSI-ER) that they have been cancelling their ER and other NBC season passes. That hurts NBC. Fewer people are watching their shows and the amount they can then charge for advertising will follow suit.

So instead of getting 61 minutes of ER viewership, they're getting 0 minutes from these people. Of course, they can only be made to see that if such people are also Neilsen families.

So if it was the fear of angering networks over people missing commercials, the abscence of N/S/R padding seems to be of more concern. With N/S/R padding NBC would get at least 60 minutes of viewership, even if they wanted to start early anyway.

As Jon Lovitz once said, "Well then, this would be more, wouldn't it?"

There are some pretty smart people at Tivo, I'm sure they've already figured this all out though; that the networks won't care about N/S/R padding.
Then, one would guess, it must be a development issue. That it would be very expensive and time consuming to add this feature. But that doesn't make any sense. The same routine that tells Tivo to stop recording at 9:05 instead of 9:00 or start recording at 7:55 should also be able to tell it to start recording at 8:01 instead of 8:00.

Of course, it would be nice for someone from Tivo to come into this thread and comment.
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Old 01-02-2004, 04:12 PM   #50 (Print)
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I think it's more about simplicity then anything else.
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Old 01-16-2004, 07:30 PM   #51 (Print)
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Reading through all three pages of messages, one thing I do *not* see. What about if you come home, a show is on and recording, time's running out, and the show is not anywhere's close to finishing. Is there a button to press that will allow manually extending the end time of the show? (Unfortunately, hitting the red, "record" button while recording is in progress only allows stopping the recording).

I would call this "manual padding".
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Old 01-16-2004, 07:39 PM   #52 (Print)
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Yes, you can already do this. Just go to the Now Playing list, find the show with the red "recording" icon next to it and hit select. Then go to options and extend the ending time by as much as you like (up to 3 hours).

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Old 01-16-2004, 07:42 PM   #53 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by sea_kenp
Is there a button to press that will allow manually extending the end time of the show?
There's no single button, but you can do it from the To Do List and probably also from Now Playing, as devdogaz noted. Note that you should change the padding option at least a minute before the recording was about to end. Otherwise, TiVo might not notice the change in time.
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Old 01-16-2004, 07:45 PM   #54 (Print)
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Thank you kindly for your responses about manually changing the end time.

You have no idea how long I hunted through the message archives for this.
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Old 01-16-2004, 09:14 PM   #55 (Print)
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Wow...

The very first glitch I found in my less than 24 hour old TiVo is also the liveliest conversation I find on boards I just joined.

I can't schedule shows back to back without going manual? How lame is this? This thread is a year old and still nothing from TiVo?

Oy.

On the other hand...TiVo rocks pretty hard, so how can I complain?
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Old 01-17-2004, 02:54 PM   #56 (Print)
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Posted this elsewhere, so apologize for cross-posting, but see that this is probably the more appropriate venue for my suggestion...

Okay, no doubt about it, NBC is to blame for the majority of the stupidity. In fact, since they've started this, they've lost a long-time viewer of several of their shows. Sucks for me, but sucks for them too.

Still, there are a couple of shows that I don't want to have to live without... Ed being one of them. First they movie it (again) to Friday nights and then they start the stupid time shift thing. I've had to move it to the bottom of my priority list, and now have to tape it. True, I could set up a manual record... but I shouldn't have to, and that just causes other problems.

In my opinion, a lot of this could be resolved if TiVo would make one "simple" change.

Allow Partial Recordings

This change could be added to the Recording Options, and, based on the location in the Season Pass List, would determine whether the recording ended or started / before or after another program.

In this way, if I had Ed, starting at 8:59 on NBC, lower in the list than say Reba, ending at 9:00, then Reba would end at 9:00 and start recording Ed (possibly missing the first minute of Ed, but more than likely, just missing another commercial).

Of course, if Ed was higher in the list, then Reba would end at 8:59, and Ed would start recording.

Negative padding is a good idea, but this seems a better solution over-all.

True, you may miss the first minute or so of a show you like, but you wouldn't have to miss the whole thing... and, thanks to NBC's discourteous attitude, you wouldn't have to miss a COMPLETE show on another network, just because of their scheduling.

Any thoughts?

Robbie

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Old 01-18-2004, 08:04 PM   #57 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by devdogaz
Yes, you can already do this. Just go to the Now Playing list, find the show with the red "recording" icon next to it and hit select. Then go to options and extend the ending time by as much as you like (up to 3 hours).
As ccwf said, this doesn't always work, but I disagree with her timeframe. I had it fail to finish recording a saved buffer, extended by 30 minutes, 26 minutes before the end. It knew it should have been padded, but stopped recording early anyway. It was an episode of 60 Minutes that had started over 30 minutes late due to football.

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Old 01-18-2004, 08:10 PM   #58 (Print)
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The latest idea that gives the most useful result thus far is not soft/negative/reverse padding but rather enabling partial recording permission. A show that allows itself to be recorded partially will schedule even if the start and/or end is in conflict with a higher priority show, and record only part of that show. Lower priority shows and possible complete repeat airings are not consulted. The setting is on a per-show basis and could be set on a SP, WL, MR, RMR, or OTR. (Start/End padding could be on a single menu item to allow for the space for the new recording option.)

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Old 01-19-2004, 04:13 AM   #59 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by HTH
As ccwf said, this doesn't always work, but I disagree with her timeframe. I had it fail to finish recording a saved buffer, extended by 30 minutes, 26 minutes before the end. It knew it should have been padded, but stopped recording early anyway. It was an episode of 60 Minutes that had started over 30 minutes late due to football.


I believe this is normal, if a little undesirable. If you terminate anything but a proper recording early, tivo does not save any of it.

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Old 01-19-2004, 04:16 AM   #60 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by HTH
The latest idea that gives the most useful result thus far is not soft/negative/reverse padding but rather enabling partial recording permission. A show that allows itself to be recorded partially will schedule even if the start and/or end is in conflict with a higher priority show, and record only part of that show. Lower priority shows and possible complete repeat airings are not consulted. The setting is on a per-show basis and could be set on a SP, WL, MR, RMR, or OTR. (Start/End padding could be on a single menu item to allow for the space for the new recording option.)


if you did that, TiVo would not have the chance to pick up the whole programme should it be repeated..as it would have already recorded it

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