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Old 01-19-2004, 03:56 PM   #61 (Print)
devdogaz
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Just an FYI to those who are interested in discussions about Soft/Negative padding and have not been following the rather lengthy discussion that stemmed from recent NBC scheduling oddities, it can be found here. The thread is pretty long and not all of it is relevant to this topic, but there is a pretty good debate about allowing partial recordings and how it could/should be implemented.

Enjoy.

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Old 01-20-2004, 06:23 PM   #62 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by doubledrat
I believe this is normal, if a little undesirable. If you terminate anything but a proper recording early, tivo does not save any of it.
I don't think you followed me.

I terminated the normal 60 Minutes recording, which was a "proper recording", at the point where the football game ended. I saved the buffer which turned it into a "proper recording", and then extended that recording by 30 minutes. The recording knew it had been extended but chose to self-terminate on the hour, failing to record the remaining 30 minutes, requiring another buffer-save to get the rest, now with the title of the next show. And then having to manually terminate that one early so it would not record a whole hour, which was again retained.

I didn't interrupt a Suggestion.

In the middle I did delete the partial recording which contained >30 minutes of unwanted football.

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Old 01-20-2004, 06:27 PM   #63 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by doubledrat
if you did that, TiVo would not have the chance to pick up the whole programme should it be repeated..as it would have already recorded it
As would be expected behavior. The user has options to adjust for that already.

For example, if it repeats again later that same night, why would it be marked partial-acceptable? Let it conflict and record the second airing in toto.

Otherwise there should be ample time to notice and set the complete repeat to record anyway.

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Old 01-20-2004, 10:57 PM   #64 (Print)
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Padding

Why can't TiVo just copy the portion of the recording that "overlaps" and paste it into the beginning of the new show? This way, you still have your pad and the new show still runs the same amount of time. No conflict whatsoever... and it would be really easy to program.

-Josh

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Old 01-21-2004, 11:22 AM   #65 (Print)
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Quote:
Why can't TiVo just copy the portion of the recording that "overlaps" and paste it into the beginning of the new show? This way, you still have your pad and the new show still runs the same amount of time. No conflict whatsoever... and it would be really easy to program.

Huh?

Are you saying that when two shows overlap, TiVo should record them both for the time that they overlap? This would be great if stand alone TiVos had dual tuners. If you are saying that when taping back-to-back shows on the same network and one starts before the end of the previous program, TiVo should know when the show ends and when the other begins? If that is what you are saying, how do you propose TiVo should recognize the ending of one show and the beginning of the next?

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Old 01-23-2004, 01:45 AM   #66 (Print)
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Quote:
devdogaz said on 06-02-2003:
Why can't I program to record manually down to the minute rather than down to 5 minutes? ... I just don't see any real reason why we don't have the freedom to record any portion of any show we choose. Please, explain it to me or start offering it!
Quote:
papabrody replied on 06-04-2003:
IMO, TiVo has stopped enhancing its basic PVR software and is only interested in enhancements that they can charge extra for; i.e., HMO.
The hypothesis of papabrody fails to explain why TiVo doesn't allow simple minute-by-minute manual recordings as requested by devdogaz, myself, and countless others over the years.

I feel that the hypothesis of devdogaz (finer-grained recording times would require TiVo to provide more detailed data to the advertisers about how many people recorded which portions of each show) is unconvincing and needlessly complex. The request isn't an enhancement as much as it's simply a correction of a stupid initial design. (Yeah, I could've said "faulty," but let's face it, 5-minute granularity is just plain stupid.)

Application of the Razor of William of Occam leads to the following simple hypothesis: They just don't care. They don't have to.

If you want to embroider this simple idea a little bit, consider that manual recording is a poor stepchild that some TiVo designers may have wanted to leave out entirely (in the interest of maintaining the fiction that ease of use is the only important criterion for the interface), and these same people may now be shouting down any attempt to improve this unattractive feature (unattractive to ease-of-use purists, that is).

My ease-of-use embroidery may seem to violate Occam's Razor, but you can find plenty of evidence on this forum that TiVo employees often resort to the ease-of-use argument in saying why TiVo shouldn't provide other clamored-for features like soft padding or a free-space indicator.

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Old 01-23-2004, 04:13 PM   #67 (Print)
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When TiVo first came out, the data source only supported scheduling at 5-minute intervals. You can't fault them for designing to the specifications of the Tribune data.

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Old 01-25-2004, 03:25 PM   #68 (Print)
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Yes, I can. ReplayTV came out around the same time, using TMS for their source just like TiVo, and according to what I've read they provided one-minute granularity. (Even if TMS didn't report it, shows started and ended at odd times even then, and it made/makes sense to allow access to them.)

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Old 01-25-2004, 08:56 PM   #69 (Print)
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Also, TiVo has always stored the start/stop times for recordings down to the second. You can see this using various TiVo hacks.
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Old 06-02-2004, 08:57 PM   #70 (Print)
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ok, i dont know if someone already mentioned thins... i olny read a couple posts.... but everyone seems to be making this more complacted then it is (maybe its just me), but couldnt they just add an option in the recording options (where they have the option to end the recording late and start it early) to make it so the show could start late or end early...personally i dont care if i miss the last minute or credits.. or the beginning intro... and to me this doesnt seem like a complacated programing change...

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Old 06-03-2004, 03:30 PM   #71 (Print)
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Yes, yes... I've asked for that. Again and again. Let me have full control. No fancy logic needed.

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Old 06-10-2004, 05:43 PM   #72 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Syzygy
Yes, yes... I've asked for that. Again and again. Let me have full control. No fancy logic needed.
I'd rather have it done right than fast. For me, right lets me express a preference and let's the TiVo adjust for me according to the uncontrollable schedule rather than me setting a hard number for negative padding adjustment and have it fail because I guessed wrong.

What is the phrase again? "Fast, cheap, right. Pick two."

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Old 11-07-2004, 02:29 AM   #73 (Print)
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My thought is to have the option to decide how to handle the conflct when it is presented on-screen. Every time the TiVO displays a screen informing me that X program won't be recorded because of a schedule conflict, I'd like to be able to solve it right then and there. I'd like to be able to decide whether to cut off the last minute or so of the conlficting program or start the second program 1 -2 minutes late, etc.
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Old 11-07-2004, 05:22 AM   #74 (Print)
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In case anyone reading this does not know, there is now a fantastic hack that provides soft padding. see my sig for details.

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Old 11-15-2004, 11:30 AM   #75 (Print)
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Why can't TiVo make a quick software fix that would allow you to start the programming late or stop it early. This would allow you to make these corrections when you see a conflict or set them in your SP. This shouldn't cost too much for TiVo to do and would help so many people. I understand that this would not solve everyone's problem but I think alot of people would be happy and others could possibly utilize this feature to suit their purpose.

It just infuriates me that the networks are doing this. They are losing viewers because they are forcing you to choose one program over another. They are the ones that lose because their time does not conform with all the other networks. Also, what does it matter if we stop watching sooner or later, we fast forward through the commercials anyway. We just want to see the best parts of a program whether it is at the beginning or the end.

I hope TiVo can find a solution to this problem. I read through the entire 4 pages and didn't see a response to this.

Is TiVo listening?
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Old 11-15-2004, 11:44 AM   #76 (Print)
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I guess that with the bulk of their audience in America, tivo don't care about this "problem" as most networks has an insane amount of adverts between programmes. I.e. it doesn't really affect people in America?

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Old 11-17-2004, 02:27 PM   #77 (Print)
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Oh, it affects us Yanks a lot.

I've lost pieces of the actual story at the end, and interesting intros (esp. with The Simpsons). I've had to resolve conflicts many times by resorting to the clumsy Manual Recording method.

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Old 11-18-2004, 08:35 PM   #78 (Print)
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OK, so after reading this entire thread and one or two others on this subject, I have yet to see what TiVo says about this. Are they not doing the whole customer interaction thing on these boards anymore?
(not saying that to be inflammatory. I just don't come here as often as most of you seem to.)
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Old 12-02-2004, 10:20 AM   #79 (Print)
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few complaints

There's an AP wire story where Tivo is quoted as saying they've received few complaints about the network funky times. I'd post a link but I'm still too much of a newby here and the forum won't let me post urls.

The title of the story was
TV Networks Shift Times, Run Longer Shows

The relavent line the article was

Tivo officials say they have fielded a small number of complaints about the network time-shifting.

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Old 12-02-2004, 07:07 PM   #80 (Print)
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That's because TiVo can't do anything about the network's scheduled times so why would TiVo get any complaints about it?

Now if TiVo were to say they have had very few complaints about the fact that their product can't record back to back shows when they overlap by one minute, I would have to call BS. They have had hundreds, hopefully thousands, of complaints about that.

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Old 12-03-2004, 01:28 AM   #81 (Print)
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Yes. I would like this to at least be an option.
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Old 01-18-2005, 09:00 AM   #82 (Print)
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Yes. Please add this feature. Also do not limit padding to 5 min. increments. Why can't we just put in the minutes by the number buttons rather than a scroll. I just wanted to add 1 min.
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Old 01-18-2005, 10:19 PM   #83 (Print)
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As much as I hate to say it, my crappy Time Warner SA8000HD (with equally crappy SARA software) can record things with the "negative" time.

So, it knows that show A, is from 8:-8:59 and records it and then starts show B at 8:59 -10:00 (or whatever)

Although I will grant you, the SARA software will continue to see all "FUTURE" episodes as 59 minutes long until you "re-do" it.

Of course then again, it has dual tuners, so it can record "overlaps".
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Old 01-19-2005, 12:44 AM   #84 (Print)
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Some time back (seems like ages ago, now), I started one of the threads on this subject (now currently being archived). After waiting this long for a formal response, I'm quite honestly fed up. Here's why.

For those of us with hacked units (Telnet prompt), we've had an insanely simple script to allow manual negative padding (go into a scheduled recording and make it end earlier or start later on a one-time basis). It literally is a matter of two plain-text strings in the interface (the normal string contains only positive numbers -- adding in negative values allows negative padding).

This isn't the "big fix": it doesn't address the automatic adjustment of back-to-back recordings, and it doesn't stick on Season Passes -- but it is a simple and effective solution for one-time use. It's not a hard-core hack, and with the right text in the selection screen, anyone can understand what will happen if you select it. (Where you currently see "Stop Recording: 5 minutes longer", you'd see an option for "1 minute shorter", "2 minutes shorter", etc.)

I often tell people that the thing that ticks me off most about other drivers is people who don't use their turn signals...not because it's a huge deal in itself, but because it's so easy that there's just no excuse not to. The same thing applies here -- there is a proven, simple solution to allow users to at least fix the problems as they find them, and TiVo won't change two lines of code to give it to folks who don't choose to hack their TiVos.
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Old 01-19-2005, 06:32 AM   #85 (Print)
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Rosenkavalier: if you have a telnet prompt, I strongly recommend you install the soft padding hack as referenced in my signature.IMHO it is the best hack you can put on your TiVo!

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Old 01-20-2005, 11:42 AM   #86 (Print)
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This thread seems to be 3 years old. Was anything ever done? I'm running into problems with the way Tivo handles conflicts (schedule says a program ends at "9:01", causing a conflict with another program that starts at 9:00, so I miss the whole thing. 3 years seems to be a long time to wait for somebody to respond to a need.

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Old 01-20-2005, 01:36 PM   #87 (Print)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Greg.Steele
This thread seems to be 3 years old. Was anything ever done? I'm running into problems with the way Tivo handles conflicts (schedule says a program ends at "9:01", causing a conflict with another program that starts at 9:00, so I miss the whole thing. 3 years seems to be a long time to wait for somebody to respond to a need.


This was the point I was making -- even without the big fix, a small version could have been done by the TiVo folks at anytime. And, as far as I know, there hasn't been a clear explanation from the powers-that-be as to why this issue keeps getting pushed to the back of the enhancement list.

Doubledrat: while that sounds interesting, I'm averse to running too many additional processes on my old S1 standalone box. Right now, the only additional process I keep running is TiVoWeb -- if I want to use the FTP server, I go in and manually start it up. (I've had problems in the past of my TiVo crashing if I had too many additional processes running -- including a couple of really hard crashes.) Since I don't tend to watch the programs with the screwed-up times except on special occasions, having the manual adjustment is enough for me.
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Old 01-21-2005, 04:09 AM   #88 (Print)
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rosen: up to you obviously, but endpad spends 99% of it's time sleeping, so you don't know it's there. I've been running it for about a year on a s1 no probs. I recently added tivoweb, and still it works like a dream.

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Old 04-22-2005, 10:51 PM   #89 (Print)
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I'm totally not impressed with responsiveness by TiVo to users' suggestions, or even acknowledgement that we exist, other than to lure us in by offering $100 rebates and then not paying up for 10 weeks. Don't get me wrong, I'm not about to dump my two boxes... neither am I gonna lie and say I'm ecstatic about customer support. Truthfully, I'm so pissed off by this minutes grabbing by the networks that I'm finding it hard to be civil.
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Old 10-16-2005, 05:31 PM   #90 (Print)
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Any hope that the powers-that-be will make such a simple software adjustment?? Please!

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