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Old 12-16-2002, 06:02 AM   #1 (Print)
Dibblah
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Flickery menu bar?

Has anyone else noticed a problem with the menu selection bar on the Tivo?

With me, it has a very obvious flicker to it.

Well, I looked about a bit, and found a way to change it. It flickers because the white horizontal border is 1 pixel wide - And the antialiasing they use is worse than useless because of the transparent colours near black.

Is it just me? Is it just on 100hz sets?

Cheers,

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Old 12-16-2002, 06:04 AM   #2 (Print)
sanderton
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Rock solid no flicker at all on my 100Hz set; normal 50Hz flicker on my 50Hz set.

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Old 12-16-2002, 06:11 AM   #3 (Print)
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Same here, rock solid at 100Hz, flicker at 50Hz.
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Old 12-16-2002, 06:31 AM   #4 (Print)
radish
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Yep, looks great on my main 100hz set, awful on the bedroom (50hz) portable. I'm so glad I don't have 50hz in the living room, it would drive me up the wall
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Old 12-16-2002, 06:45 AM   #5 (Print)
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No Problem with my Phillips at all...

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Old 12-16-2002, 06:30 PM   #6 (Print)
mrtickle
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It does "twitter" due to a poor choice of line thickness and interlacing (parts of the line are only displayed every 1/25th of a second). It's not just you - the reason you've noticed it is that you've probably just upgraded from the old 1.5.2 software, where it was done properly
If it's any consolation you soon get used to it to the extent you forget it
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Old 12-17-2002, 06:55 AM   #7 (Print)
Dibblah
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Quote:
Originally posted by mrtickle
It does "twitter" due to a poor choice of line thickness and interlacing (parts of the line are only displayed every 1/25th of a second). It's not just you - the reason you've noticed it is that you've probably just upgraded from the old 1.5.2 software, where it was done properly
If it's any consolation you soon get used to it to the extent you forget it


No - The reason I noticed it is cos I finally got round to fixing it :-)

alt.org

Cheers,

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Old 12-17-2002, 02:03 PM   #8 (Print)
mrtickle
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Woah! What a star!

would you like a shopping list of other graphics that need fixing?

what about embeem's comment on that thread - why do you flush the resource groups (and what does that mean)?
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Old 12-17-2002, 05:42 PM   #9 (Print)
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I hope I'm not being dumb but I don't have /Resource/Image directory.
How do I run this, I NEED to fix that bloody flickering bar!.

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Last edited by fysmd : 12-17-2002 at 05:49 PM.
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Old 12-17-2002, 09:44 PM   #10 (Print)
mrtickle
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Hey, some of us have been living with it for almost a year!

/Resource/Image isn't a directory that you can access directly, it's a location in the MFS database. As long as you have a bash prompt you should be able to upload the scripts and the images (in binary mode), then run it, reboot and viola. But only do so if you have done an mfstools backup - you could hose your tivo if something goes wrong.

If you have tivoweb installed, you can "browse" the mfs database as a virtual website, eg you can go to
http://tivo/mfs/Resource/Image
and see a list of all the images.
There are loads on my tivo, some are the channel logos I uploaded myself, others are obviously USA-tivo images, and some have dates of 27th July 2002! So somewhere along the line we've had new images added since the 2.5.5 upgrade.

I hadn't been in this bit of MFS before, it is interesting to see images that aren't used in the UK:
http://tivo/img/EnteringShowcase.17.png ("let's go!")
http://tivo/img/ReturningFromShowcase.12.png ("we're back!")
etc.
There are also lots of images of the back of the US tivo, closeups of the video/audio sockets. I always thought it would have made sense to have on-screen help with pictures...

Dibblah, your script changes the BlackWhite set of images, I presume it is changed to yellow in software. There is also a normal set (LeftCap.4.png, Body.4.png, RightCap.4.png) which seems to be the dark yellow set which also needs fixing. To see both sets go to a ToDo item - "Record as planned" is one set and "Options" is the other, depending on where you have the cursor.

Now that I've pulled the images out and magnified them a bit at least I can see how bad that curved edge is, and I know I wasn't imagining it! It looks like something a child drew freehand using the mouse and none of the graphics tools!
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Old 12-18-2002, 05:20 AM   #11 (Print)
fysmd
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Quote:
Originally posted by mrtickle
Hey, some of us have been living with it for almost a year!

Me too, just didn't know there was anything I could do about it - I've even had somebody check my 100Hz TV after I'd replced my SCART cables with new, good ones!

Quote:

/Resource/Image isn't a directory that you can access directly, it's a location in the MFS database. As long as you have a bash prompt you should be able to upload the scripts and the images (in binary mode), then run it, reboot and viola. But only do so if you have done an mfstools backup - you could hose your tivo if something goes wrong.
...

HHmmm when I ran "runme" I got a bunch of errors last night yet when I tried this morning it generated none!

I've found that recently, after a restart TiVO seems to loose the ability to display any TV, I get the blue screen suggesting I change channels a few times etc. This appears if I select channels from ariel or SCART input. The only way I've found of fixing it is to power cycle. I had installed some channel logos last night, hence the restart!.

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Old 12-18-2002, 05:54 AM   #12 (Print)
Dibblah
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Quote:
Originally posted by mrtickle
Woah! What a star!

would you like a shopping list of other graphics that need fixing?

what about embeem's comment on that thread - why do you flush the resource groups (and what does that mean)?


Erm... This is probably getting a bit too technical for this forum. However, I'll post it here, since you asked :-)

When a resource (sound, image, etc) is used on the Tivo, it's cached in 2 places -

1. In MFS (http://tivo/mfs/SwSystem/ACTIVE - The ResourceGroup() entries contain CompressedFile entries. These are pointers to MFS objects containing the 'raw' data from the resource MFS directory.

2. In memory (in Tivoapp / MyWorld).

Before the actual resource is used, you have to:

1. Replace the resource
2. Clean out the cached object in MFS
3. Restart MyWorld (easiest way is a reboot)

2 is the part that AlphaWolf's code does.

What embeem is saying is that I'm removing the CompressedFile entries for _all_ of the resources - Not just for the ones that are modified earlier in the script.

BTW - This is all from stuff I figured out looking at others code - It's not original work :-)

Regards fixing other graphics, it's easy!

The way I did it is:

1. Use TivoWeb to get copies of the images you want to modify.
2. Edit the images in The GIMP / Photoshop / whatever you fancy (Don't use paint - It appears to generate bad data :-(
3. Add another line to runme
...
5. Profit!


Cheers,

Allan.
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Old 12-18-2002, 05:58 AM   #13 (Print)
Dibblah
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Quote:
Originally posted by fysmd
Me too, just didn't know there was anything I could do about it - I've even had somebody check my 100Hz TV after I'd replced my SCART cables with new, good ones!


HHmmm when I ran "runme" I got a bunch of errors last night yet when I tried this morning it generated none!

"a bunch of errors" doesn't help me much :-)




I've found that recently, after a restart TiVO seems to loose the ability to display any TV, I get the blue screen suggesting I change channels a few times etc. This appears if I select channels from ariel or SCART input. The only way I've found of fixing it is to power cycle. I had installed some channel logos last night, hence the restart!.


Strange... Are your antenna / SCART connected to the same source (digibox, etc)?

Cheers,

Allan.
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Old 12-18-2002, 06:26 AM   #14 (Print)
fysmd
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dibblah
Strange... Are your antenna / SCART connected to the same source (digibox, etc)?


Yes but the signal reaches the TV OK (I also have SCART from digibox to TV direct). I still see the TiVo graphics on screen, TV Guide (liveTV *2) menus etc. but no picture.
Power cycling just the TiVo fixes the problem.
(maybe this should be in another thread, it's not related to flickering menu bars)

Sorry about the "bunch of errors" I was intending to repeat and post them but as I said, it worked this morning....

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Old 12-18-2002, 03:06 PM   #15 (Print)
mrtickle
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dibblah
Erm... This is probably getting a bit too technical for this forum. However, I'll post it here, since you asked :-)


Ta. AFAIK the UK forum is generally for all matters UK-tivo, we're only big enough for a split into two (this one and the chat one), so don't worry - tech is good here!

Quote:

When a resource (sound, image, etc) is used on the Tivo, it's cached in 2 places -

1. In MFS (http://tivo/mfs/SwSystem/ACTIVE - The ResourceGroup() entries contain CompressedFile entries. These are pointers to MFS objects containing the 'raw' data from the resource MFS directory.

2. In memory (in Tivoapp / MyWorld).

Before the actual resource is used, you have to:

1. Replace the resource
2. Clean out the cached object in MFS
3. Restart MyWorld (easiest way is a reboot)

2 is the part that AlphaWolf's code does.

What embeem is saying is that I'm removing the CompressedFile entries for _all_ of the resources - Not just for the ones that are modified earlier in the script.


Right - and because you're rebooting immediately, it really doesn't matter that they are all cleared (sledgehammer to crack a nut) because the cached images will be rebuilt anyway? I see!

The only thing that I can forsee being a problem is the IDs used to hold the new/old versions of each image, and if tivo were to upload new ones to our machines with the same IDs. But I think we're ok
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Old 12-19-2002, 05:03 AM   #16 (Print)
Dibblah
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Quote:
Originally posted by mrtickle
Right - and because you're rebooting immediately, it really doesn't matter that they are all cleared (sledgehammer to crack a nut) because the cached images will be rebuilt anyway? I see!


It's not so much that - As far as I can see, the compressedfiles aren't loaded by MyWorld at any time apart from startup. So it doesn't matter if they're there or not. Also, if they don't exist, MyWorld autocreates them.

There have been a couple of mentions of GSODs with the resources not matching the CompressedFiles, though, which made me nervous enough to 'nuke 'em from orbit - Just to be sure'.

Cheers,

Allan.
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Old 12-19-2002, 07:10 PM   #17 (Print)
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Thanks!
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Old 01-01-2003, 03:48 PM   #18 (Print)
mrtickle
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Well I've done the change now and the improvement is staggering! I had got
used to the twittering bar, but it's a subconsious thing as well. I now
have a lovely rock-steady bar and the clouds look peaceful once again! Thankyou so much!

For anyone else who wants to have a go:
The images I'm attaching here are replacements for the ones provided in the
UK 2.5.5 tivo resources. From my point of view there were two goals:
1. remove the "twittering" caused by having a single white horizontal
line of pixels sandwiched between two dark lines; the white line
only appears every other field, ie 25 times a second.
2. tidy up the curves. The originals look as if they were drawn in a
hurry and are far inferior to the polished ones we had in the 1.5.2 software.

Dibblah did most of the work, I have tried to tide up the gold coloured
lozenges as well (the ones used from a ToDo entry: "Options" next to
"Record as planned"). With these, the blue background was really naff
with stray pixels all over the place.

The rules with the palette seem to be the same trial-and-error ones that
apply to logos:
pure magenta (and red/green/blue) end up transparent
pure black ends up as super-transparent and can "cut through" two layers
of background

There were some pure black pixels in Dibblah's images which meant that the
"have you finished with this programme?" screen had lines which "cut
through" the black background and made the programme underneath visible.
There were also some strays which were hard to see unless you turned the
contrast up on the monitor, but which meant the same happened in the
curved black ends - pieces of cloud could show through. I also changed
the height so that it matches the gold lozenges, and fixed various stray
pixels.

The curves at the ends are slightly steeper than the original, but I like this. It
means that we have more chance of text fitting in the lozenges which can
sometimes get chopped (eg the "save until" text in Nov/Dec)!

As before, all you (should) need is a bash prompt, upload all the files
to your tivo in binary mode and make the two .tcl files and "runme"
executable (chmod +x). then type
./runme
and if all is well, reboot.

(Do at your own risk etc. It's worked for me so far. Make sure you SAVE the original files just in case!)

My next idea is to have a different coloured single-tick icon. I hate
the way it's the same colour as the double-tick icon, it's hard to pick
them out visually from the To Do list. There seem to be plenty of reds
in the palette...

Edit: attachment removed - see Dibblah's post later in the thread for a later version

Last edited by mrtickle : 01-02-2003 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 01-01-2003, 04:05 PM   #19 (Print)
Tony Hoyle
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Wow! That makes so much difference! I hadn't even noticed the flickering before...
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Old 01-01-2003, 04:12 PM   #20 (Print)
mrtickle
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Good innit
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Old 01-01-2003, 06:15 PM   #21 (Print)
Bakdraft
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Smile

You swines - I never even noticed the flickering before... but now I can't miss it!!

I guess I will just have to put my techy hat on and get down and do the job!

Can't wait to try it

As per usual thanks to Dibblah and Mr Tickle for stunning work

Dave

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Old 01-01-2003, 09:42 PM   #22 (Print)
b1gjon
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Quote:
Originally posted by mrtickle
As before, all you (should) need is a bash prompt, upload all the files
to your tivo in binary mode and make the two .tcl files and "runme"
executable (chmod +x). then type
./runme
and if all is well, reboot.
Which directory do you upload the files to or does it not matter?
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Old 01-02-2003, 07:03 AM   #23 (Print)
GavinP
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I FTP'd the files into a temporary directory under /var/hack and it worked fine.

Make sure you enable read/write access first though if you have your TiVo setup for read-only access initially - I forgot and got a load of error messages. Enabled RW and re-ran with no problems - doh!

Rebooted TiVo and all is well - thanks!

Thanks

Gavin

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Old 01-02-2003, 07:32 AM   #24 (Print)
GarySargent
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What flickers? I have two TiVo's, one on a cheap 50Hz set and one on an expensive 100Hz set. I don't see flickering on either?!

Also the white lines around the menu bar do not look like one pixel to me, since the lines on the triangle at the end are much thinner.

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Old 01-02-2003, 07:52 AM   #25 (Print)
mrtickle
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The black menu bar does - the horizontal line of white pixels at the top/bottom is definitely only 1 pixel high. If you compare the BlackWhiteBody image in MFS with the one in the zipfile you'll see the difference.
Over time since the 2.5.5 upgrade you tend to stop noticing it, but I also wanted to fix the curves (see above).
HTH
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Old 01-02-2003, 08:01 AM   #26 (Print)
Quinten
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Could someone maybe take a screenshot of it? I'm at work and am desperately trying to visualise what screen this is, but can't...

Q.

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Old 01-02-2003, 08:09 AM   #27 (Print)
mrtickle
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Yes, sure. I had thought of that after my post and was going to add to it but you've beaten me to it

I will make some magnified "before and after" pics tonight.
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Old 01-02-2003, 11:11 AM   #28 (Print)
doogie
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Just tried it and got the following output

Quote:
bash-2.02# ./runme
Saving old image ID 31236 to file BlackWhiteLeftCap.3.backup.png
Installing image file BlackWhiteLeftCap.3.png
New image resource id: 405608
Saving old image ID 31240 to file BlackWhiteBody.3.backup.png
Installing image file BlackWhiteBody.3.png
New image resource id: 405609
Saving old image ID 31238 to file BlackWhiteRightCap.3.backup.png
Installing image file BlackWhiteRightCap.3.png
New image resource id: 405610
Error opening MFS path /Resource/Image/LeftCap.4
can't read "obj": no such variable
while executing
"dbobj $obj get "File""
("uplevel" body line 5)
invoked from within
"uplevel $body"
invoked from within
"transaction {uplevel $body}"
(procedure "RetryTransaction" line 5)
invoked from within
"RetryTransaction {
if {[catch {set obj [db $db open $mfspath]}]==1} {
puts "Error opening MFS path $mfspath"
}
set oldimageid [dbobj $..."
(file "./changeimage.tcl" line 30)
Error opening MFS path /Resource/Image/Body.4
can't read "obj": no such variable
while executing
"dbobj $obj get "File""
("uplevel" body line 5)
invoked from within
"uplevel $body"
invoked from within
"transaction {uplevel $body}"
(procedure "RetryTransaction" line 5)
invoked from within
"RetryTransaction {
if {[catch {set obj [db $db open $mfspath]}]==1} {
puts "Error opening MFS path $mfspath"
}
set oldimageid [dbobj $..."
(file "./changeimage.tcl" line 30)
Error opening MFS path /Resource/Image/RightCap.4
can't read "obj": no such variable
while executing
"dbobj $obj get "File""
("uplevel" body line 5)
invoked from within
"uplevel $body"
invoked from within
"transaction {uplevel $body}"
(procedure "RetryTransaction" line 5)
invoked from within
"RetryTransaction {
if {[catch {set obj [db $db open $mfspath]}]==1} {
puts "Error opening MFS path $mfspath"
}
set oldimageid [dbobj $..."
(file "./changeimage.tcl" line 30)
Removing CompressedFile (cached) items
retrying after errTmBackgroundHoldoff ...
Reboot your TiVo to apply the changes
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Old 01-02-2003, 12:16 PM   #29 (Print)
Dibblah
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Quote:
Originally posted by doogie
Just tried it and got the following output


Ugh. Looks like some of my error checking only got added after the version you ran.

Here's a fixed version of the changeimages.tcl

- This will not get round the issue - It appears that either the image was unavailable at the time you ran the script (MFS busy), or does not exist on your TiVo. However, it handles the error a bit better.

You may want to retry it again - It may just have been busy.

Cheers,

Allan.
Attached Files
File Type: zip changeimages.zip (9.1 KB, 276 views)
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Old 01-02-2003, 01:51 PM   #30 (Print)
mrtickle
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Cool. Yes I should mention, for those who don't use tivoweb - basically
you can't always get access to mfs if the tivo is busy using it. Tivoweb
has code which keeps retrying until there is a gap between tivo's own
accesses to mfs. Sometimes you just have to wait for the tivo!

Ok here are the images (hope this works)



On the top are the originals. On the bottom are the improved versions. (Magenta=transparent)

Each lozenge is made of 3 images. The middle section is 1 pixel wide and is
tiled to make the lozenge as wide as it needs to be.

Sometimes, i.e. in the menu bar, the left piece isn't used - just a very
long middle piece and then a right-hand piece.

You can see that the white lines used on the original menu bar are only
1 pixel high, with grey above/below it. The contrast is just enough to
make them twitter (remember that because it's only 1 pixel high it
completely disappears every other field, ie it flashes on/off 25
times/sec.

The new one doesn't flicker because there are two lines; with interlacing on the TV when the "odds"
are being displayed one line will be visible and then when the "evens" are
being displayed the other will be visible in almost the same place on
the screen. The gold ones don't flicker as there isn't such a sharp
change between colours on adjacent lines - but they needed tidying!

HTH

Last edited by mrtickle : 01-02-2003 at 02:10 PM.
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